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Old June 18th, 2006, 03:51 AM   #3281
YelloPerilo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
The Opium Wars were absolutely miniscule in scale compared to the slaughter during The Great Leap Forward (30 million dead - six times the number killed by the Nazis in the Holocaust) and the horrors of The Cultural Revolution.
Bloody British imperial pig! Not the Opium Wars did the biggest damage, but the addiction of over 20 million young Chinese and the consequent damage for the whole economy. What a bloody ******* can ever justify this barbaric behavior!

Comparing a failed economical decision that cost millions of human lifes with a systematic and, industrial murder of the Jews, you bloody retard!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
Chinese whinge and moan about Japan's WWII atrocities not being adequately covered in school textbooks and also about Koizumi's repeated visits to the Yasakuni shrine that honours Japan's war dead (including class A war criminals). However that's dishonest and hypocritical given that Chinese leaders (and people) pay respects at Mau's mausoleum in Tiananmen Square despite that fact that he murdered far more Chinese than Imperial Japan ever did.
People are still whoreshipping that bitch's grandmother who still posseses one of the greatest Chinese art collection in her palace and who benifitted a great deal from the opium trade!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
And China has for centuries bullied her neighbours and never accepted them as diplomatic equals. Since WWII China has invaded Tibet, aggressively attacked India and Vietnam in border disputes, supplied and supported Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge (who killed one third of Cambodia's population in three years), continues to support the vile military junta in Myanmar, maintains the vile regime in North Korea, works closely with Mugabe's appalling regime in Zimbabwe, and continues to threaten military aggression against Taiwan. China cannot bitch and whine about European colonial empires and aggression whilst maintaining imperial territories in Xinjiang and Tibet and acting so aggressively itself.
Tibet has been China's territory for ovr 800 years, moron. Long before British pigs went to America and steal other peoples land. British pigs have been supporting dictators and military coups until recently (hint: that bitch Margaret's son is sitting in jail in South Africa). Taiwan is still a proving of the Republic of China, moron! The Tang dynasty has been in Xinjiang long before the Uygures arrived from North Eastern Mongolia, moron.
The Vietnam border war was not about border issue, moron! India was the aggressor, moron!

You defintely need some history lesson, moron!
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Old June 18th, 2006, 03:53 AM   #3282
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77 million died in China during PRC rule accoding to Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution

40 million dead under Mao (4 x the number killed in China during WWII):
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#Mao
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Old June 18th, 2006, 03:55 AM   #3283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cphdude
And I fell that they have, by ceeping millions of people in a dictatorship, complete with secret police, torture, deathpatroles and capitalpunishment or imprisonment for life for people who do not agree with or speaks out against the party. By having no freedome to speak or practice religion or say and do what you want. By now alowing ownership or private rights and by cuntinuing to keep millions of people in powerty...

Now, do you want me to cuntinue... ?
Give me independet sources! Otherwise you have pulled things out of your arse!

Dänen haben echt den Arsch offen!
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Old June 18th, 2006, 03:55 AM   #3284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozcan
Hey Monkey, you're still alive.. how have you been lately?
Thriving thank you. I am rarely on Euroscrapers these days but still here on SSC.
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Old June 18th, 2006, 03:56 AM   #3285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YelloPerilo
Give me independet sources! Otherwise you have pulled things out of your arse!

Dänen haben echt den Arsch offen!
The second link I cited below gives dozens and dozens of sources and takes a median of them:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
77 million died in China during PRC rule accooding to Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution

40 million dead under Mao (4 x the number killed in China during WWII):
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#Mao
What with all the insulting language being spewed out at the end of the previous page it's quite clear who has lost the argument.... but then he always does....
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Old June 18th, 2006, 03:56 AM   #3286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
I have forgotten more about history than you'll ever know.
Yeah, for example the dictatorship of Park in S. Korea and of Chiang on Taiwan.
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Old June 18th, 2006, 03:59 AM   #3287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
77 million died in China during PRC rule accoding to Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution

40 million dead under Mao (4 x the number killed in China during WWII):
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#Mao
wikipedia is not a reliable source because everyone can edit. I have seen some articles about the death toll during great leap foward, some scholars suggest that the 20~30 million numbers fail to account for the decreased fertility rate during famine. Indeed, China's population kept increasing except one year if I remember correctly.
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Old June 18th, 2006, 04:01 AM   #3288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
77 million died in China during PRC rule accoding to Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution

40 million dead under Mao (4 x the number killed in China during WWII):
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#Mao
77 million died during the CR (1966 - 1976) and 40 million dead under Mao (1949 - 1976). Yeah, very reliable sources. Monkey doesn't know math!
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Old June 18th, 2006, 04:03 AM   #3289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wigo
wikipedia is not a reliable source because everyone can edit. I have seen some articles about the death toll during great leap foward, some scholars suggest that the 20~30 million numbers fail to account for the decreased fertility rate during famine. Indeed, China's population kept increasing except one year if I remember correctly.
It's given as high as 38 million in some sources. One source here (Robert Walker) estimates anywhere between 15 and 25 million killed in forced labour camps alone:
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#Mao
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Old June 18th, 2006, 04:04 AM   #3290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YelloPerilo
77 million died during the CR (1966 - 1976) and 40 million dead under Mao (1949 - 1976). Yeah, very reliable sources. Monkey doesn't know math!
No the the 77 million figure is clearly given for the entire period of communist rule - which you would know if only you could read....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution

"R.J. Rummel has estimated that under the Communist Party of China's rule, between the founding of the PRC and the current day, there were 77 million democide deaths"
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Old June 18th, 2006, 04:06 AM   #3291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YelloPerilo
Give me independet sources! Otherwise you have pulled things out of your arse!

Dänen haben echt den Arsch offen!
You are right, china is not even a dictatorship. It is all made up. The lack of freedom, the revelution, the laburcapms that have killed millions, Tianaman square...

Someone made it all up...(probably theose Brits, right?) I think you have to be Chinese to think that...

Oh, and speaking of the art of discussion...(as you mentioned)Im pretty sure in intailes senceble arguments, not that rambeling and name calling you just presented in the other post....
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Old June 18th, 2006, 04:06 AM   #3292
YelloPerilo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
The second link I cited below gives dozens and dozens of sources and takes a median of them:What with all the insulting language being spewed out at the end of the previous page it's quite clear who has lost the argument.... but then he always does....
You mean the insult you have done to the Chinese by saying that the Opium Wars did little harm to the Chinese. Not only is that insulting but amoral and anti-social at the hightest level, moron!
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Old June 18th, 2006, 04:06 AM   #3293
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From figure 3 of this article, only 1961 has extremely higher death rate, 1960 and 1962 have only slightly higher death rate. And all of the rest years, the death rate is pretty much normal.

http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/china/geog/population.htm

Anyway, I did a calculation, it appears that the death toll during 1960-1962 does have 20 million based on this figure. However, your rest of accusation about PR China is completely outlandish since the death rate are all normal!

Last edited by wigo; June 18th, 2006 at 04:16 AM.
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Old June 18th, 2006, 04:11 AM   #3294
YelloPerilo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
No the the 77 million figure is clearly given for the entire period of communist rule - which you would know if only you could read....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution

"R.J. Rummel has estimated that under the Communist Party of China's rule, between the founding of the PRC and the current day, there were 77 million democide deaths"
Where did rj rummel get his information from? I estimate, that the opium trade killed at least 60 million Chinese.

77 million is quite a low number for a population of 1,3 billion, right? I bet more than 77 million people died in Uk since WW2.
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Old June 18th, 2006, 04:14 AM   #3295
YelloPerilo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cphdude
You are right, china is not even a dictatorship. It is all made up. The lack of freedom, the revelution, the laburcapms that have killed millions, Tianaman square...

Someone made it all up...(probably theose Brits, right?) I think you have to be Chinese to think that...

Oh, and speaking of the art of discussion...(as you mentioned)Im pretty sure in intailes senceble arguments, not that rambeling and name calling you just presented in the other post....
Morons don't know the difference between authocracie and dictatorship.

Lack of freedom? What is the ultimate definition of freedom? How free were your people when your country were at a similar stage of economical development as China now?

Tiananmen? Nothing but name droppings without any background information.
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Old June 18th, 2006, 04:15 AM   #3296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YelloPerilo
Where did rj rummel get his information from? I estimate, that the opium trade killed at least 60 million Chinese.
Rummel lists his dozens of sources here as I linked to before:
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#Mao
Quote:
Originally Posted by YelloPerilo
77 million is quite a low number for a population of 1,3 billion, right? I bet more than 77 million people died in Uk since WW2.
No regime in history has ever killed so many in such a short time frame as Communist China. 77 million is more than the entire population of the UK.

Here is an interesting comparison of the C20th three bloodiest tyrants - Hitler, Stalin, and Mao:
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/tyrants.htm
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Old June 18th, 2006, 04:18 AM   #3297
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[QUOTE=Monkey]
Quote:
Originally Posted by YelloPerilo
Where did rj rummel get his information from? I estimate, that the opium trade killed at least 60 million Chinese.[/QUOTE}Rummel lists his dozens of sources here as I linked to before:
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#MaoNo regime in history has ever killed so many in such a short time frame as Communist China. 77 million is more than the entire population of the UK.

Here is an interesting comparison of the C20th three bloodiest tyrants - Hitler, Stalin, and Mao:
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/tyrants.htm
No country has as many people as China. 1% unhappy people = 13 million unhappy people! 1% crazy people = 13 million crazy people running amok!
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Old June 18th, 2006, 04:18 AM   #3298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wigo
From figure 3 of this article, only 1961 has extremely higher death rate, 1960 and 1962 have only slightly higher death rate. And all of the rest years, the death rate is pretty much normal. Anyway, I think your numbers are outlandishly high, monkey

http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/china/geog/population.htm

Anyway, I did a calculation, it appears that the death toll during 1960-1962 does have 20 million based on this figure. However, your rest of accusation about PR China is completely outlandish since the death rate are all normal!
The atrocities in China under Mao are ranked second only to WWII as the largest mass bloodshed in world history:
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat0.htm#20worst


For the C20th:



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Old June 18th, 2006, 04:19 AM   #3299
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[QUOTE=Monkey]
Quote:
Originally Posted by YelloPerilo
Where did rj rummel get his information from? I estimate, that the opium trade killed at least 60 million Chinese.[/QUOTE}Rummel lists his dozens of sources here as I linked to before:
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#MaoNo regime in history has ever killed so many in such a short time frame as Communist China. 77 million is more than the entire population of the UK.

Here is an interesting comparison of the C20th three bloodiest tyrants - Hitler, Stalin, and Mao:
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/tyrants.htm
you need to make sure 77 million is the number before you make an accusation. And we also need to take in the account that China was under extreme poverty and western embargo during 1950-1960s.
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Old June 18th, 2006, 04:23 AM   #3300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
The Opium Wars were absolutely miniscule in scale compared to the slaughter during The Great Leap Forward (30 million dead - six times the number killed by the Nazis in the Holocaust) and the horrors of The Cultural Revolution. Chinese whinge and moan about Japan's WWII atrocities not being adequately covered in school textbooks and also about Koizumi's repeated visits to the Yasakuni shrine that honours Japan's war dead (including class A war criminals). However that's dishonest and hypocritical given that Chinese leaders (and people) pay respects at Mau's mausoleum in Tiananmen Square despite that fact that he murdered far more Chinese than Imperial Japan ever did. China's school textbooks gloss over the CCP's atrocities far more than Japan does her historical crimes. The 30 million dead from the Great leap Forward are barely mentioned and the massacre in Tiananmen Square is not covered at all. However the threat posed by the "Gang of Four" is covered in depth.

And China has for centuries bullied her neighbours and never accepted them as diplomatic equals. Since WWII China has invaded Tibet, aggressively attacked India and Vietnam in border disputes, supplied and supported Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge (who killed one third of Cambodia's population in three years), continues to support the vile military junta in Myanmar, maintains the vile regime in North Korea, works closely with Mugabe's appalling regime in Zimbabwe, and continues to threaten military aggression against Taiwan. China cannot bitch and whine about European colonial empires and aggression whilst maintaining imperial territories in Xinjiang and Tibet and acting so aggressively itself.

?? What a liar!
I wish I know you in person and educate you about this. It needs a whole day to change your mind though, since your anti-communist biased press has rooted so deeply in your mind.
Pathetic.
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