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View Poll Results: host city of Olympics 2012
London, UK 280 25.23%
Madrid, Spain 342 30.81%
Moscow, Russia 90 8.11%
New York, USA 206 18.56%
Paris, France 192 17.30%
Voters: 1110. You may not vote on this poll

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Old October 4th, 2009, 05:25 AM   #7021
Fabrega
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Spaniards knew it was gona be hard after london 2012. Even harder if we had to face Rio in the finals, first south american olympics argument was hard to beat.

Some european members have their own interest they trying to host the olympics on 2020 themshelves. So they decided not voting Madrid, not because they hate Spain or dident think their venues or presentation were strong enougth. Just because of their own interest in presenting their cities in 2020. Why vote on another city that migth make ur chances of winning that much lower next time around.

If Madrid would have won, it would have been a waste of time presenting a european city in 2020. So now that the olympics of 2016 went to the americas, Spain is gona move on, take the experience and come back stronger on 2020. 3rd time is the charm, no time for crying and bitching thats not part of the olympic spirit.

Congrats Rio!!!!!!!! All i can say is don't **** it up lol if not south america wont see the games ever again, damn that a lot of pressure. But we believe by 2016 u guys will be ready ur country has done very good in this hard times.

I believe Chicago was voted out because if the olympics were going to the americas it was gona be Rio not Chicago. And Tokyo dident have a strong popular support, plus the city already hosted the event once.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 05:31 AM   #7022
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Originally Posted by Fabrega View Post
Spaniards knew it was gona be hard after london 2012. Even harder if we had to face Rio in the finals, first south american olympics argument was hard to beat.

Some european members have their own interest they trying to host the olympics on 2020 themshelves. So they decided not voting Madrid, not because they hate Spain or dident think their venues or presentation were strong enougth. Just because of their own interest in presenting their cities in 2020. Why vote on another city that migth make ur chances of winning that much lower next time around.
.
I've heard reports that the vast majority of Spains votes came almost exclusively from Europe so I fail to see your logic.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 05:46 AM   #7023
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Originally Posted by nomarandlee View Post
I've heard reports that the vast majority of Spains votes came almost exclusively from Europe so I fail to see your logic.
Votes are secret so i dont know how you came to that conclusion.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 06:16 AM   #7024
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Originally Posted by CarlosBlueDragon View Post
OLD
FIFA WC 1994 = USA!! 2years ago Olympic 1996 = Atlanta!!
So relax!!

NEW
.......
Can u stop violence against the Tibet Nation and the aspiring Uyighirstan
BFOR TRYING ANYTHING
V ALL CAN REJOICE

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Old October 4th, 2009, 06:21 AM   #7025
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But it didn't
good job captain obvious, goes to show how smart u are
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Old October 4th, 2009, 06:24 AM   #7026
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Originally Posted by Gerardogt View Post
MADRID WAS BETTER THAN CHICAGO (70% OF THE VENUES BUILT), FOR ALL THE PEOPLE FROM THE USA (300,000,000) "CHICAGO SHOULD" BUT FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD CHICAGO SHOULDN'T. I THINK THAT POEOPLE FROM MADRID, OR TOKYO KNOWS BETTER HOW TO LOOSE WITH DIGNITY!
They know how to loose with dignity because for 4 years they have known they were gonna lose, this whole time people worldwide were saying it was a race between Chicago and Rio, honestly i wouldnt have minded if Chicago got 2nd to Rio, but 4th place with such a good plan? no that doesnt fly by me too well, considering europeans made up 40 percent of voters, it goes to show how close minded europeans really are
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Old October 4th, 2009, 11:23 AM   #7027
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Originally Posted by backupcoolm4n View Post
They know how to loose with dignity because for 4 years they have known they were gonna lose, this whole time people worldwide were saying it was a race between Chicago and Rio, honestly i wouldnt have minded if Chicago got 2nd to Rio, but 4th place with such a good plan? no that doesnt fly by me too well, considering europeans made up 40 percent of voters, it goes to show how close minded europeans really are
It was all between Rio and Tokyo. Chicago had no chances. That was clear to everyone.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 12:03 PM   #7028
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Rio and Tokyo? You mean Rio and Madrid. Tokyo came second last remember? Chicago did have a chance, but I suppose dwindling public support, protests against the games and a pointless Obama coming to Copenhagen to needlessly lobby for it was what failed for Chicago.

One should also note that Rio won the games not only because a Madrid games would come after a London one, but also because during the selection of candidate cities, the IOC let Rio through instead of Doha, Qatar in spite of the fact that Doha scored higher in their assessment. This would have been a major factor, not only due to the fact that a South American city had never hosted or that Madrid comes after London.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 02:45 PM   #7029
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Originally Posted by Fabrega View Post
Votes are secret so i dont know how you came to that conclusion.
Well I suppose it comes from Olympic observers with contacts who did some exit polling.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 03:41 PM   #7030
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Passion unites Rio 2016

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

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Old October 4th, 2009, 04:10 PM   #7031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backupcoolm4n View Post
They know how to loose with dignity because for 4 years they have known they were gonna lose, this whole time people worldwide were saying it was a race between Chicago and Rio, honestly i wouldnt have minded if Chicago got 2nd to Rio, but 4th place with such a good plan? no that doesnt fly by me too well, considering europeans made up 40 percent of voters, it goes to show how close minded europeans really are
Xenophobic much? And by the way, admitting publically, as you did earlier, that you've already had three accounts banned on this site doesn't do much to dispel the myth that Americans are dumb. See, I can induldge in stupid stereotypes as well, but it doesn't get us anywhere really does it?

Blaming the Europeans rather than USOC, Chicago 2016 etc. etc. shows how little you understand what happened. The world's media got it wrong, not for the first time either as far as Olympic bid races go. You should feel let down by the media for leading you to believe it was set in stone, and USOC for buggering up Chicago's chances by straining relationships with the IOC membership.

EDIT: I see you've been banned. That, people, is how you go about shooting yourself in the foot. Who gets banned from a site three times then sets up a new account and posts this fact?! DUH!
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Old October 4th, 2009, 04:40 PM   #7032
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What really sucks about Chicago losing is how this will affect the US politically. Obama probably won't be able to get health care reformed now, as a result, which I desperately need because Insurance companies refuse to insure me because of all the cancer in my family. So it's kinda weird to think that while this decision is great for Rio, and will bring much joy to that city, it will likely end up resulting in a lot of unnecessarily dead Americans (like me if I got cancer suddenly and couldn't afford to get it treated).


Oh, and to the person who was incredulous about Europe and Asia being the same continent, they are. Dividing them is a purely cultural construct that is meaningless to the scientific community who just consider the whole thing to be Eurasia.




Now, when considering possible US bids for 2020 (maybe there should be a dedicated thread to this topic?) one should consider which cities have the following:
  • A large GDP
  • Cultural cachet
  • A need for a new football/athletic stadium

San Francisco meets all the criteria but the citizens of the city are very anti-sports and will never approve of the construction of a new stadium no matter how badly it's needed.

Washington DC meets all the criteria but would run into huge issues regarding oversight (federal vs city) and funding (federal vs anything else).

Los Angeles meets all three criteria but it has the issue of having already hosted two Olympics and it's main airport is already overcapacity.

Miami also meets all the criteria but its hard to imagine the city of Miami putting aside the cocaine and condoms to actually do something constructive.

New Orleans meets the last two criteria but already has issues with rebuilding from Katrina let alone preparing for the Olympics.

San Diego meets the last two but may not have the money (remember Chicago had $450 billion and it still wasn't enough to sway the IOC) and there is an issue with the lack of capacity at its airport.

Boston meets the first two criteria but with no need for a new stadium, and no place for a temporary one, geography might conspire against them.

Minneapolis meets the last criteria (and actually has expressed an interest in running) but has little recognition internationally and may not have the deep pockets.

Honolulu meets the second criteria but would run into issues of access as well as issues of stadium location, cost and need.

One city that meets none of the criteria, but would be interesting, is Pittsburgh. Sure it's relatively poor, no one knows it internationally and it doesn't need a stadium, but it's topography would make for one beautiful Olympic Games.



Make of my deconstruction what you will.

Last edited by Basincreek; October 4th, 2009 at 04:48 PM.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 05:29 PM   #7033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomarandlee View Post
Well I suppose it comes from Olympic observers with contacts who did some exit polling.
I hope they are not the same observers with contacts that predicted for chicago to be in the finals and told the american media.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 06:04 PM   #7034
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Originally Posted by Basincreek View Post
What really sucks about Chicago losing is how this will affect the US politically. Obama probably won't be able to get health care reformed now, as a result, which I desperately need because Insurance companies refuse to insure me because of all the cancer in my family. So it's kinda weird to think that while this decision is great for Rio, and will bring much joy to that city, it will likely end up resulting in a lot of unnecessarily dead Americans (like me if I got cancer suddenly and couldn't afford to get it treated).

Oh, and to the person who was incredulous about Europe and Asia being the same continent, they are. Dividing them is a purely cultural construct that is meaningless to the scientific community who just consider the whole thing to be Eurasia.

Now, when considering possible US bids for 2020 (maybe there should be a dedicated thread to this topic?) one should consider which cities have the following:
  • A large GDP
  • Cultural cachet
  • A need for a new football/athletic stadium

San Francisco meets all the criteria but the citizens of the city are very anti-sports and will never approve of the construction of a new stadium no matter how badly it's needed.

Washington DC meets all the criteria but would run into huge issues regarding oversight (federal vs city) and funding (federal vs anything else).

Los Angeles meets all three criteria but it has the issue of having already hosted two Olympics and it's main airport is already overcapacity.

Miami also meets all the criteria but its hard to imagine the city of Miami putting aside the cocaine and condoms to actually do something constructive.

New Orleans meets the last two criteria but already has issues with rebuilding from Katrina let alone preparing for the Olympics.

San Diego meets the last two but may not have the money (remember Chicago had $450 billion and it still wasn't enough to sway the IOC) and there is an issue with the lack of capacity at its airport.

Boston meets the first two criteria but with no need for a new stadium, and no place for a temporary one, geography might conspire against them.

Minneapolis meets the last criteria (and actually has expressed an interest in running) but has little recognition internationally and may not have the deep pockets.

Honolulu meets the second criteria but would run into issues of access as well as issues of stadium location, cost and need.

One city that meets none of the criteria, but would be interesting, is Pittsburgh. Sure it's relatively poor, no one knows it internationally and it doesn't need a stadium, but it's topography would make for one beautiful Olympic Games.

Make of my deconstruction what you will.
Another issue with a U.S. games is that the risk and guarantees largely filter down to the municipal level. That was a BIG (and controversial) responsibility to take on for Chicago. Many of those other cities you listed are under a million people. Those are cities that have less then 1/3 the people of Chicago or 1/8 the size of NYC. Even for cities like NYC or Chicago the idea of billion dollar cost over runs or boondoggles cause a sweat. For cities with much less margin for error the prospect I think can be horrifying if cost containment were to break down.

If a city can get the rest of the metro region or state to partake in a porotion of the risk and cost, as Chicago to some degree was able to do, then the finances can look a lot less intimidating for a city but the trick is convincing a metro or state to feel and take a large stake in a city centered Olympics. The contradiction is that the best bids are likely to be the most centralized as well so that is why I think early reports of Boston making it a kind of pan-New England games will fall flat fast.

Another differant but imporant aspect is that any city that will build a new stadium and entertains ANY thoughts of bidding for a future games I would also recommend that they build it so that has the potential to be converted to a track stadium so that they can minimize redundant cost. This is something that Chicago very well could have done in 2000 before rebuilding Soldier Field and completely dropped the ball on even though they put forward a bid less then ten years later.
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Last edited by nomarandlee; October 4th, 2009 at 07:12 PM.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 06:29 PM   #7035
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Soup or man, that was only my opinion. In these 2-3 years of the candidacy process a great part of the people in this forum that are from the US were laughing against the brazilian bid. I believe some laughing against you now are valid.
Who?
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Old October 4th, 2009, 09:23 PM   #7036
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Originally Posted by Basincreek View Post
Now, when considering possible US bids for 2020 (maybe there should be a dedicated thread to this topic?) one should consider which cities have the following:
  • A large GDP
  • Cultural cachet
  • A need for a new football/athletic stadium
GDP is not important for Olympic Games, pure finances are. But USA has big financial problems nowadays. It's not as rich as China, Japan, Russia, Brazil and some other countries. USA is more like bankrupt. Everyone has cultural cachet and demand for new stadiums.

In any way. USA is not popular today. That unpopularity has hurt the bid very well. And 4 games in past 30 years is quite enough. Better not to waste the money USA don't have for bids in next 40-50 years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord David View Post
Rio and Tokyo? You mean Rio and Madrid. Tokyo came second last remember? Chicago did have a chance, but I suppose dwindling public support, protests against the games and a pointless Obama coming to Copenhagen to needlessly lobby for it was what failed for Chicago.

One should also note that Rio won the games not only because a Madrid games would come after a London one, but also because during the selection of candidate cities, the IOC let Rio through instead of Doha, Qatar in spite of the fact that Doha scored higher in their assessment. This would have been a major factor, not only due to the fact that a South American city had never hosted or that Madrid comes after London.
Indeed it is, Madrid had no chances mainly politically. Athens 2004 and London 2012 enough for western Europe and EU. But as well as Chicago, Madrid has clearly lack of very huge available finances. Look, stakes are a lot higher today than before. Russia just buried its winter bid in $9bln budget, which is eventually was increased in more than 3 times to over $30bln. Chicago promised just $5bln for summer games. That's why it was between Rio and Tokyo, where Rio has won politically. Both Brazil and Japan have a lot of free money that they unable to reinvest into economy. Same goes to China, Russia, India and some other countries.

Obama was not pointless. He just tried to repeat Putin's success last year. But it was worth of it. There is no harm in trying.
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Last edited by coth; October 4th, 2009 at 09:29 PM.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 09:30 PM   #7037
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It was all between Rio and Tokyo. Chicago had no chances. That was clear to everyone.
Everybody knows it was all between Rio and no other city, since IOC Commission release cities' marks...
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Old October 4th, 2009, 10:01 PM   #7038
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Originally Posted by coth View Post
GDP is not important for Olympic Games, pure finances are. But USA has big financial problems nowadays. It's not as rich as China, Japan, Russia, Brazil and some other countries. USA is more like bankrupt. Everyone has cultural cachet and demand for new stadiums.

In any way. USA is not popular today. That unpopularity has hurt the bid very well. And 4 games in past 30 years is quite enough. Better not to waste the money USA don't have for bids in next 40-50 years.
.
Coth, I know your anti-Americanism is rabid but don't embarrass yourself please.

Quote:
In any way. USA is not popular today
A city from the unpopular USA still outshined your nations bid city in 2012 though.
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Last edited by nomarandlee; October 4th, 2009 at 10:20 PM.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 11:28 PM   #7039
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Originally Posted by coth View Post
GDP is not important for Olympic Games, pure finances are. But USA has big financial problems nowadays. It's not as rich as China, Japan, Russia, Brazil and some other countries. USA is more like bankrupt. Everyone has cultural cachet and demand for new stadiums.
The US is no where near bankrupt, and is more powerful than all those countries, and will still be 100 years from now. So I think you should shut your mouth. A lack of Finances had nothing to do with why the Chicago went out in the first round.
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Old October 5th, 2009, 12:06 AM   #7040
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A city from the unpopular USA still outshined your nations bid city in 2012 though.
As I said, last few years was a turning point in world policy. BRIC has officially formed now and it's more powerful and more popular than USA or EU. All of BRIC counties are in top 10 of reserves. Russia alone has as much as entire EU. With China and Japan topping the list on 1 and 2 places. While USA has nothing, but trillions of credit debt, that making nearly 100% of US economy, comparing to 5% of China, 15% of Russia or 12% in Brazil.
Sochi bid has won thank to worldwide popularity of Russian federal government and thank to large amount of money.
As of Moscow - it's politically independent within Russia. It wasn't supported by federal government, nor politically, nor financially.
And you see, looking between $6bln bid and $60bln bid IOC will rather prefer second one.
So possibilities of Harbin 2018 and Saint Petersburg 2020 as federal bid are very very high.
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