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View Poll Results: host city of Olympics 2012
London, UK 280 25.23%
Madrid, Spain 342 30.81%
Moscow, Russia 90 8.11%
New York, USA 206 18.56%
Paris, France 192 17.30%
Voters: 1110. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 8th, 2005, 09:30 PM   #1701
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I'm sure we could both think of plenty of bad things about both Spain and the UK but we're talking about the olympics. Ok Britain had a problem with hooliganism which other countries have also had problems with but we're talking about the olympics here, not the world cup. Spain however does have a problem with racism in football that cannot be ignored, while Britain has practically wiped out racism in football.

Can we end this racism/violence chat about football and get back to the bids. Looks like NY is out of the race

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/othe...12/4071332.stm
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Old June 8th, 2005, 09:32 PM   #1702
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Good look getting them to drop it JDRS...I 3 pages from now they'll probably still be talking about it....heck, they probably opened a thread about this convo now in La Barra
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Old June 8th, 2005, 09:38 PM   #1703
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But my point is that do you tihnk Prince Harry is a racist?

My guess is he really isn't and made a misjudged mistake in his choice of costume (he is only 20ish)

There is ahuge difference between actual racism and prince harry.
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Old June 8th, 2005, 09:46 PM   #1704
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[img]http://www.****************/stilo/contenido/noticias/2005/0105/1405/images/harry-nazi.jpg[/img]

I find it uncanny that some on here are trying to state how racist the English are and how terrible its media is by posting this picture of Harry in the Sun.

First of all, everyone knows it was a Fancy dress outfit, i don't think many christians would have attacked him if he wore a Devils costume...
By wearing the outfit he is mocking and ridiculing Hitler and the Nazi way, not those who suffered. The same if someone wore a Devils outfit for a fancy dress party.

But here is the best bit... just look at the pic above, its The SUN. This great unworthy paper, attacked by those who attack English media, is outwardly condemning Harry's outift!!! So on one hand Harry is bad for wearing a fancy dress costume and on the other hand the English media is bad for condemning it!!

The pic above is perfect for showing just how sensitive the British are to such things...

I do not read Spanish papers, but how many covered their front pages with condemnation for real racist monkey chanting??
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Old June 8th, 2005, 09:48 PM   #1705
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Believe it or not I was in Spain when that Prince Harry Nazi coustume thing all happened.
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Old June 8th, 2005, 09:48 PM   #1706
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This is really going off topic now., could you please stop bickering like kids?? Truth is , according to the IOC report, we have four cities that are highly capable of hosting the games in 2012. Since NYC is now probably going to step down , the race is between London , Madrid and Paris, and im afraid that geopolitics are going to take a mayor role now in deciding the winner.
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Old June 8th, 2005, 10:34 PM   #1707
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Fans stunned after Reds supporters cleared

Jun 7 2005




By Toby Porter, South London Press



FORMER Millwall chairman Theo Paphitis has called for the FA to be disbanded after it found Lions fans guilty of racist chanting.

The FA yesterday fined the club Ģ32,500 after finding them guilty of charges arising from the Carling Cup game between Millwall and Liverpool in October. Fans could be banned from a home game if the offence happens again. Millwall are now set to appeal.

Liverpool fans ripped up more than 70 seats in the away end at The Den, then hurled them at police, during Millwall's 3-0 Carling Cup defeat by the Merseysiders on October 26.

The authorities charged both clubs in December over the violence and chanting.

There were claims at the time - even in the House of Lords - that Liverpool supporters had been "provoked" by chants about the Hillsborough Disaster.

But such singing was not even mentioned in the Metropolitan Police report on the fighting - as revealed by the South London Press in November.

Report author, acting chief supt Dean Higgins said then: "It was the sort of chanting you would hear at most games. The abusive chanting came from both sides and was not sustained."

And Liverpool chief executive Rick Parry did not even lodge a complaint about racist chanting.

That charge arose as a result of letters to the FA from Liverpool fans, and supporting evidence from a digitally-enhanced video taken by television cameras that were at the game.

Paphitis said: "The FA should be disbanded. Lord Burns is currently conducting an inquiry into the way it works and I fear people will see this decision was made for political reasons. I am ashamed by the FA's verdict and personally insulted - and I think Mr Parry is just as stunned as I was.

"The FA has ignored the views of the police, the match officials, the fourth official, the chief steward and the head of security but believed people who wrote letters to them, then changed their stories.

"The video evidence was totally inconclusive - other videos we showed from other grounds were just as conclusive. It is a shame the FA has got to this level."

The verdict - Ģ7,500 of the fine is for failing to stop coin-throwing - follows a three-day hearing in April. Whatever the outcome of Millwall's appeal, the FA will not overturn the Reds' verdict.

Liverpool appear to have escaped the charges by saying that control of supporters in all sections of the stadium was the responsibility of the home club. Nine men - three from Millwall and six from Liverpool - have been found guilty of charges relating to the violence.

Millwall Supporters Club chairman Beverley Fenn said: "The FA's use of Liverpool fans' letters to bring charges sets a dangerous precedent. What is to stop our fans or supporters of someone else conducting an unfounded smear campaign against another club? The FA has given licence to people who want to create trouble that way."

Any appeal would be overseen by an independent QC and not the FA. The FA also said the stewarding on the night of the game was "woefully inadequate" - but it had made no complaint until the finding and has not told the club how to improve it.

Parry's written statement to the hearing said: "To avoid any doubt, we do not allege in any way that there was any form of racist chanting during the evening from Millwall supporters."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://icsouthlondon.icnetwork.co.uk...name_page.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


UK police accused of 'racist insults'


Racist gang attacks man

Cars attacked as family terrorised by racist vandals


increasing numbers of employees were abandoning their jobs because of abuse, often racist, from British


------------------------------------------------------------------------



Yep, we all can see that racism is not a problem in the UK anymore...by the way, all these news are taken from the brit press and were published during the last 5 days.
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Old June 8th, 2005, 11:14 PM   #1708
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From the South London Press... big time British media.
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Old June 8th, 2005, 11:23 PM   #1709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pricemazda
From the South London Press... big time British media.


Ok, then check:

The Times: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...643712,00.html

or The Telegraph : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mai...7/ixfooty.html

or the BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...ll/4614191.stm

or these links:

http://www.sportinglife.com/football...HD=nationwide1

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/...ing%20Standard

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0...name_page.html
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Old June 8th, 2005, 11:23 PM   #1710
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Report author, acting chief supt Dean Higgins said then: "It was the sort of chanting you would hear at most games. The abusive chanting came from both sides and was not sustained."


He wasnt refering to racist chanting BTW.


You can post this, and we could come back twice as hard...

Did anyone click on that story I posted?

a black man kills a local woman and then 50 black men are put in hospital after racist attacks lasting 3 days...in spain!?

Much worse than anyhting you've posted regarding the UK and racism
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Old June 8th, 2005, 11:28 PM   #1711
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Racist chanting is not totally absent from UK football but it is far rarer than in most european leagues, that article itself casts doubt on whether it actually took place.

If by posting that article your trying to show the UK press trying to cover up fans poor behaviour then your totally incorrect aswell since the rejection of the charges comes from the chairman of Millwall not the report itself. If anything I'd say the UK press is exactly the opposite highlighting any misbehaviour of our fans as much as possible, some would claim even overestating it.

I'd really like the following question answered, did the Spanish media report the racist chanting at the England/Spain friendly or the Spainish coaches supposed racist comments in a negative light? I can assure you if that had happened in this country the headlines would have read "a national disgrace" or something similar.
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Old June 8th, 2005, 11:38 PM   #1712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddyk

a black man kills a local woman and then 50 black men are put in hospital after racist attacks lasting 3 days...in spain!?

So at the end the only killed and raped there was a spanish teenager right?

That news is pretty old, if you want to talk about the past, just remember all the italians brits killed and then pissed all over their death bodies not that long ago.
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Old June 8th, 2005, 11:42 PM   #1713
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I am tired on Spanish forumers generally in the way they debate. I only used Franco as an example of how ridiculous it is to base a comment on a country from events that happened twenty years ago. So if we are hooligans because of what happened years ago, then you are Fascists. It is retarted to base a nation of 60 million people on what happened twenty years ago.

However, what you can still say is in some sections of lower class english 'football' supporters that excessive alcohol consumption causes violence. Just like it appears there is a racism problem in some parts of Spanish football. Notice how they were fine with the white players. Thats all.
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Old June 8th, 2005, 11:43 PM   #1714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrLess
I'd really like the following question answered, did the Spanish media report the racist chanting at the England/Spain friendly or the Spainish coaches supposed racist comments in a negative light? I can assure you if that had happened in this country the headlines would have read "a national disgrace" or something similar.

Yesp, the spanish media reported it, in fact it was the breaking news of the day and it openned all the tvnews and was headline in all the press. They alos reported the racist coment of the coach, and in fact it was a national polemic, a lot of the media wanted his "head" and couldnīt understand how could he still being the national coach.
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Old June 8th, 2005, 11:45 PM   #1715
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you have evidence for that statement? That simply wasn't true. You should be very very very careful about that.
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Old June 8th, 2005, 11:51 PM   #1716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacorro
Do you think we are proud of Franco? Do you know what are you talking about? are you trying to mix racism with a dictature or is just another evidence of your ignorance?. You should be worried about what british troops are doing in Irak. Let's back to sport because I could say lots of bad things related to human rights about UK, but this is not the poll.
Arr yes, those 3 British Soldiers ... subsequently sent to Jail. what happened to Franco?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pacorro
Of course I was talking about papers like the sun and shit like that, the most extremist, not the tabloids.
Sure they might not look great with nuded pictures etc, but they still portray whats going on, just have more left wing views

Quote:
Originally Posted by pacorro
What happened in Turkey was english hooligans provoking and being RACIST with musulman supporters. Of course, the murderer of those british supporters is not justified but they were not very pacific at the same time.
Firstly, this is not the case, English fans were in no case being racist, you are making assumptions because of where they were at the time. Infact some Leeds fans were drinking in a ub when Galatasary fans started mouthing of at them, and subsequently started fighting, obviosuly wanting something to happen because why else would they carry knives?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pacorro
England hooligans were the worst one more time in Portugal, showing how pathetic they are when they are drunk, and some incidents happened in the last world cup as well.
Umm, actually England Fans were voted the best at Euro 2004 by UEFA, but admittedly there were a few incidents of violence in the south of Portugal but hundreds of miles away from were England were actually playing.

But what else can you expect when we take 200,000 fans to major tournments, Maybe if Spain and other countries did the same they might experience trouble aswell. Saying that You lot would all be asleep during the day anyway, wouldnt you? or is that a stereotype?

P.S There was no violence what so ever in Japan or South Korea, you're probably mistaken it with the Germans and the Dutch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pacorro
All the spanish media said to Luis Aragones that he was wrong, but of course, it's also true that everything has been exagerated, there weren't thousands insulting england black players, who behaved really agressive against Spain players for being in a friendly match.. I've got no words to explain Wayne Rooney's behaviour, the one coming to my mind is pathetic.
Of course we won the game.
Umm, Luis Aragones wasnt even asked to apoligise by the Spanish FA or Goverment, neither did the Spanish FA or Goverment apoligise at first for the racist comments at the English Players, both at the youth game the day before and the seniors the day later.

English players reacted the way they did because of your fans, Wayne Rooney had to be subsituted with only 30 minutes played. It wasnt just your fans either, your players are just as weak and pathetic as you lot by falling on the floor every 2 seconds when they breathed on you.

It was an embrassment to Football, Billy Wright would've been turning in his grave if he saw the amount of diving you spaniards were doing.
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Old June 8th, 2005, 11:52 PM   #1717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylandman
So at the end the only killed and raped there was a spanish teenager right?

That news is pretty old, if you want to talk about the past, just remember all the italians brits killed and then pissed all over their death bodies not that long ago.
FALSE

You're as dumb as a donkey ->
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Old June 8th, 2005, 11:58 PM   #1718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pricemazda
I am tired on Spanish forumers generally in the way they debate. I only used Franco as an example of how ridiculous it is to base a comment on a country from events that happened twenty years ago. So if we are hooligans because of what happened years ago, then you are Fascists. It is retarted to base a nation of 60 million people on what happened twenty years ago.

However, what you can still say is in some sections of lower class english 'football' supporters that excessive alcohol consumption causes violence. Just like it appears there is a racism problem in some parts of Spanish football. Notice how they were fine with the white players. Thats all.
I gave you 5 diferent news reporting racist incidents that happened in the UK with in the last 72 hours, but then you told me that the source wasnīt reliable enought. So i gave you 8 diferent sources more.

Then anther brit come with something happened in spain 5 or 6 years ago, where at the end the only killed was a Spanish teenager by a black or moor men, so if he can bring back incidents from the past to base a nation 44 million people on what happened in the past, why can we?

At the end i just want to point out, that racist is in fact a problem in Spain, but like else where in Europe (including the UK), and the thing is that the brit press did a very big deal about something that shameful (indeed, very shameful) that happened in Spain īcoz it was a really great deal for Londonīs bid. Then they donītake so much interest in pointing that 1 out of every 3 new immigrants comeing to the EU every year choose Spain as their home, or that the Spanish population went up almost a 10% in the last 5 years mostly thanks to the new immigrants (more than 3 millions) or that just in the first month of this year we legalize 700000 immigrants, or that after the Madrid bombing, the worst masacre happened in Spain since the civil war, no one attack any mosque, or arab bizīs or person, something that did happen in other countries suffering muslims terrorist attacks. It neither point out the that extreme rigth parties are growing pretty fast all over Europe, icluding again the UK, but not in Spain, where there not this kind of parties gaining votes.

The thing is that you want to picture Spain as an extreme racist country, when in fact is untrue, and just for the mere fact that itīs good for your bid.
Vary unffair.
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Old June 8th, 2005, 11:59 PM   #1719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylandman
So at the end the only killed and raped there was a spanish teenager right?

That news is pretty old, if you want to talk about the past, just remember all the italians brits killed and then pissed all over their death bodies not that long ago.

******* bastard



we didnt piss on anyone.....yeah many died, but a tango takes two.

I know the full story, you know what you want to know.
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Old June 9th, 2005, 12:02 AM   #1720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slylandman
Report author, acting chief supt Dean Higgins said then: "It was the sort of chanting you would hear at most games. The abusive chanting came from both sides and was not sustained."
P.S They are not talking about racism here, but of abusive chants, which you lot wouldnt know about because its all bang, bang, horn, horn at your games.

Its chants like - Who the ****, who the ****, who the ******* hell are you?

Not racism, just chants to try and intermiedate the opposition supporters which has a knock on affect on thier players when they hear them being outsung. Its part and parcel of the British game to have a sing off, to see who's the loudest and who has the better chants.
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