URUGUAY / ARGENTINA - FIFA World Cup 2030 bid

[Lord David]

Originally Posted by Cirdan

This is roughly what I'd plan with:

Uruguay:

~60k Montevideo I (Centenario refurbished)
4 gs, incl opening match, R2, QF, SF
~40k Montevideo II (Gran Parque Central or new stadium)
4 gs, R2, 3rd place
~40k not Montevideo (new stadium, Salta, Melo, Las Piedras, Maldonado being options, depending on where they want to build the infrastructure - rail & road more than the actual stadium, which should have many temporary seats)
4 gs, R2

Argentina:
~80k Buenos Aires I (Monumental refurbished)
4 gs, R2, SF, F
~55k Córdoba (Mario Kempes refurbished?)
4 gs, R2, QF
~50k Buenos Aires II (La Bombonera refurbished or one of the many other stadia)
5 gs, QF
~40-55k Rosario (Colos del Parque refurbished or reconstructed)
5 gs, R2
~40-55k North (brand new stadium in Tucumán, Jujuy, Salta or Corrientes)
5 gs, QF
~45k Avellaneda (Independiente, possibly one of the others refurbished/reconstructed)
4 gs, R2
~40k La Plata (Unico)
4 gs, R2
~40k Mendoza (Malvinas Argentinas refurbished)
5 gs, R2


So that makes:

3 Uru stadiums, 8 in Argentina.

I'd give the opening match to Uruguay, not the final, partly because Argentina is the big partner, but also because I think it makes much more sense to have the "return to the origins" theme in the beginning of the tournament with the opening ceremony and all, and just concentrate on the football in the final.

2 groups, 3 2nd round matches, a quarter, a semi and the 3rd place match in Uruguay, meaning 18 of 64 matches, works well with 3 of 11 stadia. Slightly skewed towards knock-out matches, but then, Argentina gets the final.

I know the Argentinan stadia are skewed towards Buenos Aires with 2 stadia in the city, another in greater BA and one in La Plata, but that's where the big clubs are, and while they are in no condition to contribute to stadium construction now, I think they'll have to be involved in 6-8 years if the bid wants to stand a chance. If they aren't, we can replace Avellaneda with another northern stadium and Rosario with Santa Fe (provincial capital) and they'll probably leave out La Bombonera as well, after all it was never used for a big international tournament.

Nope, I would still like to see Uruguay put up more stadiums. Just look at Qatar, they can do it.

Have Uruguay host 5 stadiums in 4-5 cities, which would be downsized post WC. The historic Centenario in Montevideo should be chosen as the final venue period (for obvious dual symbolic reasons), where the opening match should be held in Estadio Monumental in Buenos Aires, where it could either see a total reconstruction (keep the track as it's the national stadium and for any prospective Olympics (though didn't they propose a purpose built athletics stadium for their 2004 Summer Olympics bid?), or a modest expansion, the first option would probably be preferred, assuming it's not got some sort of historic building status or something.

You got 7 Argentine stadiums in 6-7 cities.

This could work, and would allow Uruguay to offer more than simply being there for historic reasons. The population and country size difference will be taken into account and more venues in Uruguayan cities and towns will give more exposure to the small country.

[Cirdan]

Originally Posted by Lord David

Nope, I would still like to see Uruguay put up more stadiums. Just look at Qatar, they <i>can</i> do it.

Have Uruguay host 5 stadiums in 4-5 cities, which would be downsized post WC. The historic Centenario in Montevideo should be chosen as the final venue period (for obvious dual symbolic reasons), where the opening match should be held in Estadio Monumental in Buenos Aires, where it could either see a total reconstruction (keep the track as it's the national stadium and for any prospective Olympics (though didn't they propose a purpose built athletics stadium for their 2004 Summer Olympics bid?), or a modest expansion, the first option would probably be preferred, assuming it's not got some sort of historic building status or something.

You got 7 Argentine stadiums in 6-7 cities.

This could work, and would allow Uruguay to offer more than simply being there for historic reasons. The population and country size difference will be taken into account and more venues in Uruguayan cities and towns will give more exposure to the small country.

Uruguays government is not a set of oil billionaires. I doubt very much that it is an option to have them build 5 stadiums complying with FIFA standards and the necessary airports, railways and hotels. If they can do that, I'm fine with 5 or even 6 stadia in Uruguay, but I'd be very surprised, and I don't think I'd be fine with it if I'd pay taxes in Uruguay.

Regarding opening match and final, I still believe that having the opening match in Uruguay will come across much more symbolic than the final. The week leading up to the tournament is where everybody looks at the host cities, host stadiums, the history etc, the participants of the opening match are overshadowed by the start of the event. Having the opening ceremony and match in the Centenario really allows to play on the return-to-the-roots-theme. The final is the other way around, everybody talks about the teams, their way to the final, which one is better... the host city hardly matters anymore.

For history books, it might look nice to have the final in Uruguay again, but I really think that at the time it happens, having the tournament returning to Uruguay in the opening match would be the better symbol.

[kerouac1848]

Yeah, the opening match makes more sense if Uruguay is primarily concerned about celebrating 100 years of the WC.

5-6 is excessive. 3 is about right, with one in Rivera as suggested a few pages down. It could follow the Cuiaba model and downsize to somewhere between 18-25,000, depending upon the needs. 4 would be a stretch, but is potentially possible. Argentina gets 8 (and thus 7 host cities), as you said.

The structure and governance of domestic football in Argentina needs a massive shake up though. It's right mess.

[bolsouru]

Uruguay
montevideo two stadium centenario and gran parque central
punta del este two stadium thats all uruaguay can do

[cornelinho]

vamos a madrid...

[RobH]

Just so you know what you're letting yourselves in for. I hope your bid team has deep pockets and no scruples...


FIFA's Jack Warner Accused of Seeking England World Cup Bid Favours

The leaders of England’s failed bid to host the 2018 World Cup were asked by FIFA vice-president Jack Warner to pay for an education centre in his native Trinidad during the bid process.

The Times newspaper alleges that Warner twice asked England’s World Cup bid leaders about funding for facilities on the island, in London in October 2009 and again while a high-profile delegation visited Trinidad at the time of a Caribbean Football Union dinner last February.

Under FIFA rules bid nations were prohibited from offering gifts or other incentives to delegates.

English Premier League chairman Sir Dave Richards told The Times that over drinks at a London hotel following the 2009 Leaders in Football conference, Warner asked him and former FA and World Cup bid chairman David Triesman for funds to build the education centre.

"He didn't say: 'Do this and I'll vote for you'," said Richards.

"But it was always at the back of my mind. I did nod my head at Triesman as if to say: Let's not get into this.

"What he said was England should be building this kind of education block as a legacy throughout the world. He did say Trinidad and Tobago wanted one. He said it was an education set-up that he wanted for the children of Trinidad and Tobago.”

Triesman confirmed to The Times the meeting at Chelsea’s Wyndham Grand Hotel, saying that Warner was told that it was “absolutely out of the question".

But Warner was apparently not dissuaded.

Four months later, David Dein, who was now England bid international president, visited Trinidad with bid CEO Andy Anson and bid ambassador David Ginola for the Caribbean Football Union gala dinner, which England 2018 partly funded.

The following day Warner took some of the England 2018 delegation to the village of Longdenville near the island’s capital, Port of Spain. Warner showed them a dilapidated sports facility that local councillors had petitioned Warner to redevelop.

Plans for a T$13million ($2million) complex comprising a football field, cricket pitch, changing rooms, toilets and a swimming pool had been drawn up.

In the view of some local media, Warner asked the delegation, according to The Times, “to at least help get the project started with a financial donation". A microphone was handed to David Dein who said that he would see what he could do.

Funding for the facility by England 2018 was reported in the Trinidadian media as a fait accompli, but England bid sources have always maintained that nothing was ever promised or given.

Warner denied, with typical vigour, the allegations made in today’s paper, telling The Times that the meeting never took place.

"I don't know what you are talking about," he was quoted by AFP.

"Why should I ask David Freestone [sic] or somebody for some offices here? Why should I? To do what? It doesn't make sense."

http://www.worldfootballinsider.com/Story.aspx?id=34264

[Chimbanha]

Originally Posted by Lord David

Nope, I would still like to see Uruguay put up more stadiums. Just look at Qatar, they can do it.

Qatar hosting a World Cup is one of the most ridiculous thoughts I've seen become true in my life. It's not a standard and can't be compared to Uruguay or any other country in the world. Uruguay can only have one stadium with 60k+ capacity if it is concerned about legacy.

Honestly, after the 2018/2022 hosts elections, Uruguay and Argentina should withdraw until there is some serious restructuring within FIFA. That goes to all serious country that have some kind of respect towards their contributor's tax money.

[cejon]

por que uruguay tan pocos en el mudial de corea-japon se utilizaron 20 estadios, 10 en corea y otros 10 en japon.

COREA
Seúl:Capacidad: 68.476
Daegu:Capacidad: 66.422
Busan:Capacidad: 55.983
Incheon:Capacidad: 52.179
Ulsan:Capacidad: 43.550
Suwon:Capacidad: 43.959
Gwangju:Capacidad: 44.118
Jeonju:Capacidad: 42.477
Daejeon:Capacidad: 40.535
Seogwipo:Capacidad: 42.256

JAPON:
Yokohama:Capacidad: 72.327
Saitama:Capacidad: 63.700
Shizuoka:Capacidad: 50.889
Osaka:Capacidad: 50.000
Miyagi:Capacidad: 49.133
Ōita:Capacidad: 43.000
Niigata:Capacidad: 42.300
Ibaraki:Capacidad: 42.000
Kobe:Capacidad: 42.000
Sapporo:Capacidad: 53.845

[Nort]

And what about Salto?

[Cirdan]

@Cejon: Please speak English, I don't speak Spanish and it's hard to make sense of googles translation of your post...


Regarding to why not as many as Japan/South Korea:

1st: Someone has to pay for the stadia and the infrastructure in host cities. Japan is not even comparable, and even South Korea is slightly bigger than Argentina, with more than double the GDP per capita. Not to speak of the tiny and not-too-well-off Uruguay.

2nd: Those were too many, anyway. The stadia and host cities weren't used enough to really be remembered, and it cost a lot.

[anref2001]

I see that Paraguay also want to make a world cup?

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elecci%...BAtbol_de_2030

[julian akd villegas]

nuevo estadio en misiones (CATARAS DEL IGUAZU)

[CarlosBlueDragon]

Originally Posted by anref2001

I see that Paraguay also want to make a world cup?

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elecci%...BAtbol_de_2030

2030

Uruguay....2
Argentina....0
Paraguay......3
Bolivia...........0

[Nort]

Originally Posted by anref2001

I see that Paraguay also want to make a world cup?

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elecci%...BAtbol_de_2030

LOL Uruguay+Argentina VS Paraguay

[RobH]

A little bit more about what to expect when you bid:

"Give me a knighthood and I'll vote for you" FIFA member tells England 2018

A voting member of FIFA's Executive Committee asked for a knighthood in exchange for backing England's bid to stage the 2018 World Cup, The Sunday Times newspaper reported today.

Paraguay's Nicolas Leoz, President of the South American Football Confederation (CONMEBOL) and one of the most powerful men in the game, is alleged to have raised the question of being knighted at a meeting with England officials in November, 2009...

It seems almost certain that members of Parliament will raise the new claims about Leoz when they examine the failure of England's bid at a public hearing on Tuesday (May 10).

http://www.insideworldfootball.biz/w...s-england-2018

[Pepe potamo]

Originally Posted by RobH

A little bit more about what to expect when you bid:

"Give me a knighthood and I'll vote for you" FIFA member tells England 2018

A voting member of FIFA's Executive Committee asked for a knighthood in exchange for backing England's bid to stage the 2018 World Cup, The Sunday Times newspaper reported today.

Paraguay's Nicolas Leoz, President of the South American Football Confederation (CONMEBOL) and one of the most powerful men in the game, is alleged to have raised the question of being knighted at a meeting with England officials in November, 2009...

It seems almost certain that members of Parliament will raise the new claims about Leoz when they examine the failure of England's bid at a public hearing on Tuesday (May 10).

http://www.insideworldfootball.biz/w...s-england-2018

oh my godddddd, you english are such a bad losers! accept it, you lost, russia won. ACCEPT IT!

[Pepe potamo]

Originally Posted by anref2001

I see that Paraguay also want to make a world cup?

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elecci%...BAtbol_de_2030

paraguay can't host a world cup, just take a look to the copa america they host. they have no stadiums, no big cities, no transportation. it would be a really bad a idea.
Argentina and Uruguay can have chance because of the 100th anniversary.

[RobH]

Originally Posted by Pepe potamo

oh my godddddd, you english are such a bad losers! accept it, you lost, russia won. ACCEPT IT!

Look, for the 50,000th time, I accept Russia won - as do most others here - and I hope they put on a great world cup. I've said so many times since they won the hosting rights.

But I don't accept the way FIFA is run, with several questionable figures in its ExCo, several accusations of corruption over the past decade, no real recourse for investigating such actions properly, a very shoddily run world cup bidding process which even Blatter is looking now to change (though his changes seem pretty pointless given the ExCo reamins the same and all-powerful). Do some proper reading around the subject as I have rather than making silly accusations and I'm almost certain you'll agree with me.

If Uruguay and Argentina want to bid, they ought to know exactly what they're letting themselves in for. That's not a slight against Russia in any way and I wish them all the best with their world cup.

But as long as FIFA is as corrupt and medieval as it currently is, I don't see why my bringing the subject up in World Cup threads is a problem, unless like Blatter you want things swept under the carpet.

[Lord David]

Russia won and rightly so. Qatar on the other hand...

[Lord David]

Uruguay and Argentina would be very much like Athens' bid for the 1996 Centennial Olympics. It would be more symbolic than functional, as much like Athens at the time, Uruguay and Argentina would have some stadiums, but need to build more and more-so need to invest in infrastructure based development.

It could also be criticized in the fact that Argentina would be picking up Uruguay's burden in hosting most of the cities and venues. Uruguay should have ideally IMO at least 4-5 stadiums in 4-5 cities, even if they are downsized post World Cup, with Argentina hosting 7-8 in 7 cities. Not a mere 2-10 venue/city approach.