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Old October 17th, 2013, 06:50 PM   #1981
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A high speed connection has been running between Amsterdam and Brussel for quite some time now...
No it hasn't. They ****ed it up.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 06:52 PM   #1982
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Quote:
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A high speed connection has been running between Amsterdam and Brussel for quite some time now...
It's called Thalys.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 07:03 PM   #1983
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Thalys is a scheme the Dutch railway company is not involved in. They had the Fyra running for two months until the Belgian railway company pulled out due to problems with the trains they bought in Italy. They are now rusting away near Amsterdam, and they had to put the traditional train back onto Brussels, increasing journey times rather magnificently. But today the Germans have announced that they are going to put a bid into operating a new high speed service between Amsterdam and Brussels.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 07:06 PM   #1984
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And any operator can use the Dutch and Belgian tracks? Their railway market is free already for passenger services?
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Old October 17th, 2013, 07:08 PM   #1985
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Sure. Arriva has already taken over some of the traditional routes in the Netherlands and Germany. And also the Austrian railway company ÖBB had to face competition on one of its major routes between Salzburg and Vienna. Everything is up for scraps these days...

And Thalys is a joint venture of the French, Belgian and German railway companies. The Dutch have no shares. The only thing they've got is a stake in the ICE Frankfurt - Amsterdam line.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 07:18 PM   #1986
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Well, Thalys is not liberalisation of railway services, but an international agreement for offering international services under an only brand shared by several national companies. That's why the reason of asking about the situation in Benelux about railway services by other companies, as the situation is quite diverse around the European Union.

Well, probably SNCF or DB could offer to the Dutch and Belgian governments trains for that service, which ar the end could be really profitable.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 08:12 PM   #1987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Thalys is a scheme the Dutch railway company is not involved in. They had the Fyra running for two months until the Belgian railway company pulled out due to problems with the trains they bought in Italy. They are now rusting away near Amsterdam, and they had to put the traditional train back onto Brussels, increasing journey times rather magnificently. But today the Germans have announced that they are going to put a bid into operating a new high speed service between Amsterdam and Brussels.
True, but nevertheless there is a high speed connection between Brussels and Amsterdam. By the way why wasn't Thalys interested in expanding their service to cover all the need for non-local connections between the two cities? Not enough trains perhaps?
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Old October 17th, 2013, 08:13 PM   #1988
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Quote:
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And Thalys is a joint venture of the French, Belgian and German railway companies. The Dutch have no shares. The only thing they've got is a stake in the ICE Frankfurt - Amsterdam line.
I heard DB had left Thalys?
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Old October 17th, 2013, 08:23 PM   #1989
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Have they? The Germans only had (have) a 10% stake as far as I know. Most of it is in French hands.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 08:29 PM   #1990
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yes they are out
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Old October 17th, 2013, 08:32 PM   #1991
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DB sold their share in Thalys to SNCB. Nowadays SNCB holds 40% of the shares in Thalys and SNCF the remaining 60%. Next year Thalys will be structured from a joint venture to a completely independent company, which will allow Thalys to operate more independently. The same has happened with Eurostar in 2010.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 08:34 PM   #1992
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But on the Thalys website they still say DB owns the 10% of the company.

Anyway, independent company means private-owned one?
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Old October 17th, 2013, 08:44 PM   #1993
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Yes and no. Like Eurostar.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 08:48 PM   #1994
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OK, I see, from joint venture to independent company but owned by the former parts of the joint venture... well, we'll see.

The shared proportion of DB in Thalys was relatively small. Probably, DB has other kind of strategy for operating international services.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 08:57 PM   #1995
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The one they're proposing in the Netherlands and Belgium is apparently a DB/Arriva operation.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 09:02 PM   #1996
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Quote:
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Sure. Arriva has already taken over some of the traditional routes in the Netherlands and Germany. And also the Austrian railway company ÖBB had to face competition on one of its major routes between Salzburg and Vienna. Everything is up for scraps these days...

And Thalys is a joint venture of the French, Belgian and German railway companies. The Dutch have no shares. The only thing they've got is a stake in the ICE Frankfurt - Amsterdam line.
The fact that Arriva has taken some routes in Germany makes any difference to the DB service? At the end, I think Arriva belongs to DB too. So, it sounds like the same people, different brand.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 09:04 PM   #1997
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The fact that Arriva has taken some routes in Germany makes any difference to the DB service? At the end, I think Arriva belongs to DB too. So, it sounds like the same people, different brand.
I don't know about Germany, but in the Netherlands Arriva has no ties with NS.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 09:07 PM   #1998
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Well, I am not talking directly about the Netherlands, but as Arriva is owned by DB, the fact of offering services in Germany instead of DB sounds like... strange... (or a sophisticated way of arranging operational costs for the DB group)

Edit: Now, I am reading that when Arriva was bought by DB, it was forced to sell its railway business in Germany. Now, it sounds clearer to me.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 09:17 PM   #1999
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Arriva was an independent British company, which was acquired by DB a couple of years ago. The competition authorities agreed with the sale only if all Arriva companies within Germany would be sold off, which is what happened. Trenitalia took over those operations, Arriva Deutschland is nowadays called Netinera.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 11:31 PM   #2000
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A bit complicated, all this...
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