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Old November 9th, 2013, 11:48 AM   #2041
Reivajar
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There is a Spanish-French Summit on the 27th November, so maybe they are just waiting for that date for having some interesting announcement for the media... -_-
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Old November 9th, 2013, 11:58 AM   #2042
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My fellow Istanbullu Mistral posted this over at drehscheibe-foren.de. This is apparently an official announcement that there will be a happy end after all, with services to Toulouse, Lyon and Marseille as well as 2 to Paris.

Quelle: Ministerio de Fomento auf Tranvia.org

La SNCF ofrecerá dos servicios al día por sentido en seis horas y 20 minutos. La operadora Renfe comercializará nuevos viajes a Lyón, Toulouse y Marsella


La alta velocidad entre Barcelona y París será una realidad el 15 de diciembre. Dos servicios diarios que prestará la Société Générale des Chemins de Fer (SNCF), con un tiempo estinado de seis horas y 20 minutos, culminarán décadas de reclamaciones ferroviarias y meses de pruebas para homologar los TGV franceses en territorio español y los AVE de Renfe al otro lado del Pirineo. Las negociaciones políticas entre ambos estados y las reticencias empresariales han alargado el estreno, a pesar de que ha sido justificado oficialmente por las supuestas dificultades técnicas. El Ministerio de Fomento prefiere no hablar de calendarios y se escuda en las homologaciones. Quiere hacer el gran anuncio el 27 de noviembre en la cumbre franco-española.

HORARIOS EN LA WEB Pero la maquinaria comercial de ambas operadoras está paralizada por culpa de esa falta de anuncio político del 27 de este mes. Si a principios de octubre la operadora gala había publicado en su web los primeros horarios entre Barcelona y París, pocos días después los retiró. Algo similar ha sucedido esta semana, cuando la página oficial de SNCF ha revelado igualmente los servicios directos que planea establecer Renfe entre la estación barcelonesa de Sants y Lyón, Marsella o Toulouse (este último con parada en Carcasona).

Los horarios de estos tres nuevos destinos directos desde Barcelona son competitivos porque el viaje a Toulouse es de tres horas; el de Marsella de cuatro horas y 10 minutos, y el de Lyon de poco menos de cinco horas. El problema hoy por hoy es que, igual que ocurre con el Barcelona-París, todavía no se pueden comprar los billetes para Navidad, auténtico momento dulce del año. Los clientes pueden ver los horarios, pero la venta está bloqueada a partir del 16 de diciembre.

El estreno de la alta velocidad directa entre París y Barcelona (ahora se hace con un transbordo en Figueres con cambio de tren y una espera de entre 12 y 22 minutos) a finales de año se producirá ocho meses después del último anuncio oficial del presidente Rajoy, que había dado abril como fecha de la inauguración. El viajero ganará media hora de tiempo, a la espera de que, algún día, se culmine la construcción de la infraestructura de alta velocidad en Francia y se recorten las seis horas.
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Old November 9th, 2013, 05:35 PM   #2043
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It´s like the source of this post was myself. It wasn´t, but it could have been me. And that´s no oficial source.
Some of the members at tranvia.org are as good as an oficial source (if not better), but not in this case yet.

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Old November 14th, 2013, 06:45 PM   #2044
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After two years there will finally again be a train connection between Slovenia and Italy. But only between Ljubljana and Villa Opicina, which is the first station in Italy after the border. I don't know, if you'll be able to go anywhere from there; now you can't.
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Old November 14th, 2013, 11:55 PM   #2045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
After two years there will finally again be a train connection between Slovenia and Italy. But only between Ljubljana and Villa Opicina, which is the first station in Italy after the border. I don't know, if you'll be able to go anywhere from there; now you can't.
That´s better than nothing.
It was a shame that Italy and Slovenia didn´t have any passenger rail conection.

=================================================

On a happier note, the new international service between Vigo in Spain and Porto in Portugal (called Celta) has been a big success, it has carried 20,000 passengers in four months, which is what the old Vigo-Porto service used to carry in a whole year.

That´s the proof that if you take care about things and you plan them, you won´t fail.



=================================================

Besides, an inner deep throat has said that the direct TGV/AVE services between Spain and France will finally start on December 15, as rumoured.
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Old November 15th, 2013, 07:30 AM   #2046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
After two years there will finally again be a train connection between Slovenia and Italy. But only between Ljubljana and Villa Opicina, which is the first station in Italy after the border. I don't know, if you'll be able to go anywhere from there; now you can't.
This is similar to the situation that existed years ago. I travelled on that route and trains only went as far as Villa Opicina, where on transferred to a coach. Dies makes some sense as trains take quite a roundabout route to get down to Trieste.
It would make sense for this train to continue to Venice (and maybe it will one day) and Trieste just extending the Tram to Villa Opicina all the way to the station.
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Old November 15th, 2013, 12:11 PM   #2047
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If I want to travel by train between Rome to Amsterdam, which train should I take? Where the changeover would take place?
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Old November 15th, 2013, 02:00 PM   #2048
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Try www.db.de

But as i can see, are there only to options around 15 hours.

option 1: Roma Termini - Torino Porta Susa - Paris Gare de Lyon - Paris Gare du Nord - Amsterdam Centraal.

option 2: Roma Termini - Milano Centrale - Basel SBB - Frankfurt(Main)Hbf - Amsterdam Centraal.

Last edited by milipumba; November 15th, 2013 at 02:14 PM.
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Old November 15th, 2013, 02:10 PM   #2049
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If I want to travel by train between Rome to Amsterdam, which train should I take? Where the changeover would take place?
The fastest way to travel by train between both cities is to take the frist available Frecciarossa train to Torino, then a TGV to Paris, then a Thalys train to Amsterdam. You need to travel between stations Gare de Lyon and Nord in Paris by commuter rail (RER).

I think the cheapest way to do it is to buy three tickets, one for each train.
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Old November 15th, 2013, 03:03 PM   #2050
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If I want to travel by train between Rome to Amsterdam, which train should I take? Where the changeover would take place?
If you don't want a changeover in Paris but you don't mind a longer trip you can take the route via Switzerland, so you take the Frecciarossa to Milan, then an InterCity train to Zurich, and finally a night train to Amsterdam.
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Old November 15th, 2013, 03:33 PM   #2051
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Night trains are crap. They take 4 hours longer than day trains, and don't use the most modern links. They also use outdated carriages and cost more (on a private sleeper) then the combination of a cheap Sparepreis ticket + night at budget hotel.
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Old November 15th, 2013, 06:26 PM   #2052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
This is similar to the situation that existed years ago. I travelled on that route and trains only went as far as Villa Opicina, where on transferred to a coach. Dies makes some sense as trains take quite a roundabout route to get down to Trieste.
It would make sense for this train to continue to Venice (and maybe it will one day) and Trieste just extending the Tram to Villa Opicina all the way to the station.
Or they could just extend the train to Trieste. Or introduce a local train there, but to Trieste Centrale, not Trieste Campo Marzio.
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Old November 15th, 2013, 07:42 PM   #2053
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Night trains are crap. They take 4 hours longer than day trains, and don't use the most modern links. They also use outdated carriages and cost more (on a private sleeper) then the combination of a cheap Sparepreis ticket + night at budget hotel.
Just because you think they are crap, does not mean others agree with you. I certainly don't.

If you are capable of getting your sleep also in those cabins they are actually superior to equivalent high speed connections, while being incredibly more energy efficient and less abrasive to infrastructure. And they do not need expensive tracks, some solid medium speeds corridor work perfectly fine.

The point is about real travel times and what you are missing out while travelling. If you are going somewhere, daytime is time you miss out and can't spend where you want to be. High speed trains, even if they are 2 or 3 times faster than a night train mean several hours spent like this. A night train means you simply use your travel time to get your sleep. You don't loose any time if you are sleeping in a train instead of a hotel. So the time you are loosing is only the time after lets say 8 or 9 AM, which you could already use at your destination and the time before you are going to bed. If you sum up those hours, they are usually not more than your high speed journey, often less or even close to zero.
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Old November 15th, 2013, 08:50 PM   #2054
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Human bodies do not sleep well in movement and/or with noise. This has been extensively documented by years of medical research. People are supposed to sleep on a bed, not on a moving vehicle that yanks and produce lots of lateral acceleration all night long.

I think most of the European traveler market agrees with me, since the market of night trains is dwindling, every timetable change more trains are withdrawn instead of introduced, and the number of passenger they transport on their routes is irrelevant, a nil compared to air traffic, car traffic and daytime train traffic.
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Old November 15th, 2013, 08:58 PM   #2055
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Believe me, I have enough personal experience on night trains. I know how it is like sleeping there and don't need some studies telling me how it is.

It is not the best kind of sleep but it is good enough to be perfectly rested after that night and make full use of the next day. Of course you provided no argument against my above description why travelling by night train is not only the most time efficient way within well suited distances but also much more energy and resource efficient than high speed rail.
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Old November 16th, 2013, 02:41 AM   #2056
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Human bodies do not sleep well in movement and/or with noise. This has been extensively documented by years of medical research. People are supposed to sleep on a bed, not on a moving vehicle that yanks and produce lots of lateral acceleration all night long.
Pruflink?
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Old November 16th, 2013, 02:44 AM   #2057
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Night trains are crap. They take 4 hours longer than day trains, and don't use the most modern links. They also use outdated carriages and cost more (on a private sleeper) then the combination of a cheap Sparepreis ticket + night at budget hotel.
You miss the point - daytrains are actually reduce you active day-time, while night trains provides you with full day.
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Old November 16th, 2013, 02:47 AM   #2058
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My whole point is: most people don't consider a night on a train as the same of a night on a hotel or at their home. Therefore, the time-saving comparison doesn't hold, because the sleep is very precarious on a moving train. This is why the market share of night trains is so low, and dwindling (not expanding) in Europe. In 1990, they had 4 times more seats/beds on night trains than now... and about 60% of flight capacity.
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Old November 16th, 2013, 03:37 AM   #2059
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In 1990 there weren't as many high speed day trains as nowadays, which makes it much easier to travel during day time. Lots of people won't mind losing two to four hours on a day if this means they get to see their loved ones a day earlier.
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Old November 16th, 2013, 07:35 AM   #2060
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If you don't want a changeover in Paris but you don't mind a longer trip you can take the route via Switzerland, so you take the Frecciarossa to Milan, then an InterCity train to Zurich, and finally a night train to Amsterdam.
I think this might be the best option. I have a fond memory of visiting Zurich. And although it is expensive, it might be a worth trying. I always keen on trying the sleeper train. That might be great.

As fas as I know, there is another option for this. That is taking ICE train from Zurich to Frankfurt, where from there I could take the train to Amsterdam.

I feel a bit fed up for visiting Paris. I've been there before, and was frequently harassed/not served properly due to the lack of French language knowledge. Not to mention missing some of my luggage.
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