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Old November 21st, 2013, 08:02 PM   #2101
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Not yet confirmed, but here you have a message posted in forums some weeks ago:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sangrerenc
Amplío información de los trenes fronterizos ya confirmados

TGV 9720 diario Barcelona-Sants 10h26 - Girona 11h03/05 - Figueres-Vilafant 11h21/23 - Perpignan 11h41/48 - Carcassonne 12h46/49 - Toulouse-Matabiau 13h31

TGV 9738 diario Barcelona-Sants 17h29 - Girona 18h06/09 - Figueres-Vilafant 18h24/26 - Perpignan 18h44/51 - Narbonne 19h24/27 - Montpellier-St-Roch 20h21/28 - Nîmes 20h53/56 - Valence-TGV 21h43/46 - Lyon-Part-Dieu 22h24

TGV 9724 diario Madrid-Pta.Atocha 16h00 - Barcelona-Sants 18h30/32 - Girona 19h09/11 - Figueres-Vilafant 19h27/29 - Perpignan 19h47/52 - Béziers 20h39/42 - Montpellier-St-Roch 21h21/28 - Nîmes 21h53/56 - Avignon-TGV 22h19/22 - Aix-en-Provence-TGV 22h42/45 - Marseille-St-Charles 22h59

TGV 9730 diario Marseille-St-Charles 07h10 - Aix-en-Provence-TGV 07h21/24 - Avignon-TGV 07h43/46 - Nîmes 08h06/09 - Montpellier-St-Roch 08h34/37 - Béziers 09h15/18 - Perpignan 10h03/06 - Figueres-Vilafant 10h25/27 - Girona 10h43/45 - Barcelona-Sants 11h22/12h00 - Madrid-Pta.Atocha 14h30

TGV 9741 diario Lyon-Part-Dieu 07h36 - Valence-TGV 08h11/14 - Nîmes 09h02/05 - Montpellier-St-Roch 09h30/35 - Narbonne 10h31/34 - Perpignan 11h06/09 - Figueres-Vilafant 11h28/30 - Girona 11h46/48 - Barcelona-Sants 12h27

TGV 9735 diario Toulouse-Matabiau 20h24 - Carcassonne 21h05/08 - Perpignan 22h04/17 - Figueres-Vilafant 22h36/38 - Girona 22h54/56 - Barcelona-Sants 23h33
==============================================

Trenes con numeración 97xx, prolongables potencialmente a Barcelona:

TGV 9734 diario Perpignan 08h46 - Narbonne 09h21/24 - Montpellier-St-Roch 10h27/31 - Nîmes 10h55/58 - Valence-TGV 11h42/45 - Lyon-Part-Dieu 12h24

TGV 9754 diario Montpellier-St-Roch 17h28 - Nîmes 17h53/56 - Valence-TGV 18h41/47 - Lyon-Part-Dieu 19h24/34 - Bellegarde-sur-Valserine 20h46/49 - Genève-Cornavin 21h16

TGV 9743 diario Lyon-Part-Dieu 14h30 - Nîmes 15h45/48 - Montpellier-St-Roch 16h18/25 - Béziers 17h15/18 - Perpignan 18h07

TGV 9744 diario Genève-Cornavin 14h42 - Bellegarde-sur-Valserine 15h08/11 - Lyon-Part-Dieu 16h29/36 - Nîmes 17h56/59 - Montpellier-St-Roch 18h28

Trenes Perpignan-París potencialmente acoplables a un Barcelona-París (y viceversa):

TGV 6062 (TGV 9702) diario Perpignan 10h51 - Narbonne 11h25/28 - Montpellier-St-Roch 12h18/25 - Nîmes 12h49/52 - Valence-TGV 13h38/41 - Paris-Gare de Lyon 15h53

TGV 6216 (TGV 9704) diario Perpignan 14h50 - Narbonne 15h24/27 - Montpellier-St-Roch 16h17/24 - Nîmes 16h49/52 - Valence-TGV 17h38/41 - Paris-Gare de Lyon 19h53

TGV 6065 (TGV 9715) diario Paris-Gare de Lyon 14h07 - Valence-TGV 16h18/21 - Nîmes 17h06/09 - Montpellier-St-Roch 17h34/37 - Narbonne 18h32/35 - Perpignan 19h08

And this one posted today on Spanish forums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlesnuc View Post
Más madera que es la guerra!
captura de Trains en Voyague,también son bastante excepticos.....a ver queda una semana para salir de dudas.......
So it seems like Perpignan, Narbonne, Montpellier, Nîmes and Valence-TGV could be served by the Barcelona-Paris trains. Lyon-Part-Dieu could be served by independent services though.
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Old November 21st, 2013, 08:43 PM   #2102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Next goals: Bordeaux, Nice, Lille, Brussels and Geneva... ... and then London, maybe?
I doubt there will be a Brussels-Barcelona direct service in the near future, if ever, not to mention a London-Barcelona direct service (and I'm not so confident about the Lille-Barcelona service, although it was originally planned)...
..Especially because, according to the SNCF, even the Paris-Barcelona service won't be profitable enough for them and such a long-distance high-speed service will be in direct competition with airlines companies, especially low cost ones (still according to the SNCF).


Here is an article (sorry, in French) quoting what the SNCF said recently about that:
Quote:
TGV Paris-Barcelone : "ce sera très dur face à Easyjet" (SNCF)
21/11/2013

Alors que le premier TGV Paris-Barcelone est prévu le 15 décembre, la SNCF admet que sur les routes longues, les low-cost aériennes sont redoutables et mettent la pression sur les prix. C'est le cas d'Easyjet sur Paris-Genève.

Les premiers TGV de la SNCF entre Paris et Barcelone devraient commencer leur carrière commerciale le 15 décembre prochain, à raison de deux fréquences quotidiennes. Selon Renfe qui assurera, avec la SNCF, la commercialisation des rames, le temps de parcours sera de 6h20, contre 6h40 aujourd'hui (avec un changement de trains à Figueras) avant de tomber à 5h35 une fois le tronçon entre Nîmes et Perpignan passé en grande vitesse ...en 2021. Bref, avec des temps de parcours aussi longs, le TGV perd sa puissance de feu face aux compagnies aériennes. Et en particulier les low-cost.

Les low-cost fixent les prix

"Sur Paris-Barcelone ce sera très difficile face à Easyjet.", indiquait Pierre Messulam, directeur de la stratégie et de la régulation à la SNCF, lors d'un colloque sur l'ouverture à la concurrence organisé le 5 novembre par l'institut national de la consommation (INC). Et d'ajouter : "nous sommes extrêmement préoccupés par la concurrence des low-cost aériennes sur certaines routes (…). Sur certaines lignes longues, elles sont redoutables, même si les volumes sont faibles. Ce sont elles qui fixent les prix. Sur Paris-Genève, Easyjet nous met sous pression en termes de prix". Cet exemple doit marquer Pierre Messulman car sur Barcelone, ce n'est pas tant Easyjet qui sera le concurrent le plus féroce mais Vueling, la filiale à bas coûts d'Iberia, elle-même filiale avec British Airways du groupe IAG. Sur cette route en effet, la compagnie assure 10 vols par jour au départ d'Orly et compte ouvrir deux autres vols quotidiens au départ de Roissy l'été prochain. De son côté Easyjet assure entre deux et trois vols par jour. A cela s'ajoutent les vols d'Air France. "En raison du temps de parcours du TGV, on aura du mal à convaincre sur Paris-Barcelone", explique un cadre de la SNCF.
[...]
latribune.fr
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Old November 21st, 2013, 08:55 PM   #2103
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Interesting article

For sure the Paris-Barcelona services are in the limit where high speed can work (I am not considering hypothetical night trains on high speed lines for sure, it would be a different target).

By now, apparently only two services are planned between Barcelona and Paris. Let's see how the demand evolves. Anyway, even more important than the people who can use the train for the whole trip between both cities, I guess that the service provide for intermediate cities can be pretty profitable: mostly between Catalonia and Southern France, particularly the Languedoc.
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Old November 23rd, 2013, 09:37 PM   #2104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivajar View Post
I guess that the service provide for intermediate cities can be pretty profitable: mostly between Catalonia and Southern France, particularly the Languedoc.
And that's where the rail's advantages are: airplanes just do not stop between the start and destination cities, while trains can - and should. The worst solution there would be a nonstop train. With a good strategy (and an optimal amount of stops), less than 50% of pax will travel all the way through, the catchment area has to include many other areas.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 09:06 AM   #2105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eu01 View Post
And that's where the rail's advantages are: airplanes just do not stop between the start and destination cities, while trains can - and should. The worst solution there would be a nonstop train. With a good strategy (and an optimal amount of stops), less than 50% of pax will travel all the way through, the catchment area has to include many other areas.
Which is why I don't understand that the Paris - Barcelona TGVs will not stop in Lyon...
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Old November 26th, 2013, 11:12 AM   #2106
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I guess they are afraid of making the trip any slower than it will be. In order to stop within Lyon, the train would have to leave the HSroute and enter the conventional route to Part Dieu Station. This is not a tragic loss of time considering the size of the town, but I suppose they wanted to make the ride under 6 h 30 at all costs. Stoping at Montpelier, Narbonne, or Perpignan is different, as the route is conventional and the train passes through the stations anyways. But of course these are much smaller towns compared to Lyon.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 09:51 PM   #2107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
Which is why I don't understand that the Paris - Barcelona TGVs will not stop in Lyon...
There will be specific Barcelona - Lyon Part Dieu services, so no need to worry.

In this first phase, along with Barcelona - Paris and Barcelona - Lyon, there will be Barcelona - Toulouse and Madrid - Barcelona - Marseille services. I hope they also implement Barcelona - Geneva services soon.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 04:12 PM   #2108
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According to the prelimenary timetable shown on seat61.com, there is only one train per day from Lyon PD, not very attractive for the Lyonais. But then the city itself will not fill many trains to Barcelona and the south of France, and unlike Marseille, Paris, or Geneva it is not a hub for onward journeys. The only sensible solution would be to have some Paris trains pass through Lyon PD, the exact loss of travel time I do not know though.
On the upside the schedule shown by seat61 also includes one Geneva train.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 07:34 PM   #2109
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Lyon will get one direct train to Barcelona per day, but the Lyonais can always book a ticket for a connecting train. If ticket sales prove there is enough demand for train connections between Lyon and Barcelona, the frequency can always be increased.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 07:42 PM   #2110
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Another important point to be considered is the saturation in Lyon-Part-Dieu for rooming more trains.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 08:30 PM   #2111
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Here's the Renfe press release (in Spanish): http://web02.renfe.es/u08/GAP/gestor...257C3000642176

Prices for Barcelona - Paris from € 59, Madrid - Marseille from € 89.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 08:38 PM   #2112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
Here's the Renfe press release (in Spanish): http://web02.renfe.es/u08/GAP/gestor...257C3000642176

Prices for Barcelona - Paris from € 59, Madrid - Marseille from € 89.
Thanks!

Apparently by now Renfe and SNCF don't create a common brand...
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Old November 27th, 2013, 10:18 PM   #2113
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http://www.sncf.com/fr/presse/fil-info/tgv-barcelone#

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Old November 28th, 2013, 08:18 PM   #2114
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As we learned this week:
Quote:
Serbia's Prime Minister Ivica Dacic, Premier of China Li Kegiang and Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban agreed in Bucharest on a joint project of modernisation of the railway between Budapest and Belgrade.
And later:
Quote:
The feasibility study for a modernization of the Belgrade-Budapest rail line that would then allow for speeds ranging from 160-200 km/h could be completed for just six months, it was said on Thursday in a meeting between Serbian Transport Minister Aleksandar Antic and representatives of the China Railway Corporation.

[Serbian Transport Minister] Antic said at the Serbian government that there are two possible options. The first, a more realistic one, is to modernize the existing rail line from Belgrade to Budapest, and the other – to construct a new one for high-speed trains.

The Serbian minister said that China will finance this project from the fund of USD 10 billion that was earmarked for investments in 16 countries of Central and Eastern Europe (CEE).
Source: tanjug.

Would this new railway line have anything in common with the envisaged high speed line from Hungary to Romania? I could easily imagine a common track from Budapest via Szeged and along the former 19th century line to Kikinda, where it could split with one branch continuing via Timisoara to Bucharest, the second one reaching Beograd via Zrenjanin region.

Most probably the new route would however be projected via Novi Sad, I guess.
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Old December 1st, 2013, 12:52 PM   #2115
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Two things leave me perplexed:

1) Trains will leave Barcelona in batches, 9-10 and 16-17-18, spreading them over the day creating connections with other trains would have been better.

2) Barcelona-Toulouse takes 3 hours, but there is only one round trip a day, meaning that the train wait several hours in Toulouse doing nothing, which is inefficient.
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Old December 1st, 2013, 02:26 PM   #2116
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Barcelina - Toulouse would be great extend to Bordeaux. But let's wait! There will be more connections from April and then we'll see how things develope!
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Old December 1st, 2013, 02:31 PM   #2117
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Yes, exactly... it is necessary to wait for more upcoming services during spring.

The option to Bordeaux is pretty feasible, even if it adds like 2 hours more. So, it would be around 5 hours Barcelona-Bordeaux which is not extremely competitive, but it can work out. Now, Iberia and Vueling have direct flights between both cities.
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Old December 1st, 2013, 02:35 PM   #2118
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Will it be faster to travel between Barcelona and Bordeaux in the future via Zaragoza?
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Old December 1st, 2013, 02:52 PM   #2119
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Northern route: 638 km
Southern route: 805 km (+26%)

It will depend on the development of the high speed network on one side and on the other side of the Pyrenees. Right now:

Northern route: 638 km (190 km on HSL Barcelona-Perpignan, 30%)
Southern route: 805 km (320 km on HSL Barcelona-Zaragoza, 40%)
Right now the quickest is the northern route, even if there are less kilometers on HSLs.

In the future, if the HS corridor from Zaragoza to the Basque Y HSL through Pamplona is built before the HSL Toulouse-Bordeaux, it will be quickest through Zaragoza...

P.S. The distances are taken from highways. But the proportion should be similar.
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Old December 1st, 2013, 03:13 PM   #2120
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HSL Toulouse-Bordeaux is already firmly in plans and the route has been finalised. Advertised opening in 2024 and journey time of 1 h.

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...-hs-lines.html

As far as I understand any work on Zaragoza-Pamplona connection is very uncertain and the gain from the Basque Y would probably be minimal. More significant would be the use of HS stretch from Bordeaux to Dax which is also in French pre-2030 plans. Still I don't think the Northern route could be beaten even then. However the opening of lines mentioned above would make Madrid-Bordeaux services via San Sebastian competitive with flying. At that point also any Madrid-Paris service would be faster in that direction than via Barcelona.
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