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Old August 26th, 2007, 10:15 PM   #201
RawLee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Songoten2554 View Post
like i said it will be paid by the spanish and monroco governments so its europe and Africa that it will be paying for this as well

so we humans have built great engineering feats and you people say it can't be built like i said look at the link i gave it gives a better idea on what is the scope of this project
http://www.opacengineers.com/index.p...heet,gibraltar
Client:
Date:
Construction cost (estimated): Prof. T.Y. Lin, San Francisco, California
Study completed 1996
US$ 15,000,000,000

you think Morocco and Spain can spare 15billion USD(10,969,815,314EUR)?
and its only got more expensive...
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Old August 26th, 2007, 10:31 PM   #202
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well maybe we might never know plus wikipedia has the article about the tunnel so it could be possible
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Old August 26th, 2007, 10:39 PM   #203
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Of course it could be possible, but not now or in 2008. I highly doubt even, that construction will begin before 2020, if ever.
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Old August 26th, 2007, 10:46 PM   #204
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Until Africa is not a huge trading partner,this project has no meaning. For such an investment,extensive highway and HSR network is needed on both sides,and not just in Morocco and Spain,but on the whole northwestern part of Africa.
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Old August 26th, 2007, 10:49 PM   #205
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So this will be a financial disaster like the Eurotunnel? No thanks. Better build a combined road/rail tunnel. There are a lot of trucks for Morocco, and ofcourse, a huge wave of Moroccan immigrants in Europe travelling back to Morocco each summer.
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Old August 26th, 2007, 11:34 PM   #206
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what do you mean a finicial dieaster it the channel tunnel still opreate and well it still works
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Old August 26th, 2007, 11:40 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Songoten2554 View Post
what do you mean a finicial dieaster it the channel tunnel still opreate and well it still works
It doesnt bring in funds...doesnt make profit.
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Old August 27th, 2007, 12:25 AM   #208
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Quote:
El ministro de Asuntos Exteriores y de Cooperación, Miguel Ángel Moratinos, anunció que España y Marruecos trabajarán para asegurar la creación de “un enlace fijo de infraestructura y comunicación entre el continente europeo y el continente africano” a través del Estrecho de Gibraltar que estará operativo “no más tarde de 2025″, gracias a un proyecto que se presentará a finales de diciembre en la Cumbre UE-África.

http://quiron.wordpress.com/2007/08/...-de-gibraltar/

...before 2025

we can construct it. But Morocco do not have money and the Moroccan railroads are bad and slow. Its network is not connected with other countries.
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Old August 27th, 2007, 12:27 AM   #209
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it can under a new plan i mean you might never know look at dubai i mean it was like a small city back then and quickly grew to a megoplois getaway city and a major city in just a decade or two

so you might never know what monorco might became i mean they could built new railways and such

plus it said it has been planned since the 1980's
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Old August 27th, 2007, 12:29 AM   #210
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and what do you mean it doesn't make profit

then Eurostar uses it and euroshuttle uses and also frieght and night trains use it and its not in profit that is odd?
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Old August 27th, 2007, 09:48 AM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Songoten2554 View Post
and what do you mean it doesn't make profit

then Eurostar uses it and euroshuttle uses and also frieght and night trains use it and its not in profit that is odd?
the Channel tunnel doesnt bring in profit. It is "maintained" by a company,which fails do produce more money than it uses.
Wiki says:
"At completion, it was estimated that the whole project cost around £10 billion, including a cost overrun of 80 percent. The tunnel has been operating at a significant loss, and shares of the stock that funded the project lost 90% of their value between 1989 and 1998. The company announced a loss of £1.33 billion in 2003 and £570 million in 2004, and has been in constant negotiations with its creditors. In its defence, Eurotunnel cites a lack of use of the infrastructure, an inability to attract business because of high access charges, too much debt which causes a heavy interest payment burden, and a low volume of both passenger and freight traffic 38% and 24%, respectively, of that which was forecast."
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Old August 27th, 2007, 10:32 AM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Songoten2554 View Post
it can under a new plan i mean you might never know look at dubai i mean it was like a small city back then and quickly grew to a megoplois getaway city and a major city in just a decade or two

so you might never know what monorco might became i mean they could built new railways and such

plus it said it has been planned since the 1980's
Something is, if it is "planned" in heads of politicians and similar, other if it is on paper. And I'm sure, that this paper may be rather empty.
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Old August 27th, 2007, 11:00 AM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Songoten2554 View Post
it can under a new plan i mean you might never know look at dubai i mean it was like a small city back then and quickly grew to a megoplois getaway city and a major city in just a decade or two

so you might never know what monorco might became i mean they could built new railways and such

plus it said it has been planned since the 1980's
The UAE grew out of nothing,because of its monopole position as the only western-friendly oil supplier. Not even Libya is able to do such development,let alone Morocco,which doesnt have oil(at least,not at that scale). Our M4 and M5 metro line,the beltway around Budapest dates back to 1890-1900-ish years. Still,none of these exist. A plan is nothing. thats just an idea. Napoleon planned a tunnel under the Channel(so he could invade Britain),but it was only realized in the 80's.
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Old August 27th, 2007, 11:43 AM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
Until Africa is not a huge trading partner,this project has no meaning. For such an investment,extensive highway and HSR network is needed on both sides,and not just in Morocco and Spain,but on the whole northwestern part of Africa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arriaca View Post
we can construct it. But Morocco do not have money and the Moroccan railroads are bad and slow. Its network is not connected with other countries.
Morocco rail network is or may be connecetd easily with Algeria and Tunisia.

The problem is the rest of Africa with its dozens of unconnected railways, built mainly with 3 different gauges (1000-1067-1435):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...auge_world.png
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Old August 27th, 2007, 11:57 AM   #215
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Looking at that map,the future of Africa is either a narrow-gauge network,or a northern normal-gauge,and a southern narrow-gauge. Either case,Africa needs to achieve at least the South-African level of development,before anything of such volume could be constructed,which would bring in money.
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Old August 28th, 2007, 12:45 AM   #216
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Just to make it clear, Eurotunnel itself is in profit (526 £ millions in 2006 revenue and 233 £ millions operating costs), just these profits are not enough to cover construction debts.
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Old August 28th, 2007, 11:07 AM   #217
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Well, the Eurotunnel Group has never brought a profit. It's been always in huge debt, mostly because of underestimated coast of construction of the Channel Tunnel. Another factor is much smaller than expected volume of traffic. Since May 2007 the debt was around £6 billion. There were many ideas introduced to cut the debt, for example the number of shuttle trains per hour is 2 comparing to original 4; 1/3 of the staff has been laid off. Not long ago the company went under bankruptcy protection. And it's all happening between really well developed countries and their economies, on a heavily used cargo and passenger trail.
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Old August 28th, 2007, 11:10 AM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkjkjk View Post
Just to make it clear, Eurotunnel itself is in profit (526 £ millions in 2006 revenue and 233 £ millions operating costs), just these profits are not enough to cover construction debts.
Isn't it called creative accounting?
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Old September 5th, 2007, 05:13 AM   #219
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Eurostar - Faster Travel Times Between London & Paris

Eurostar picks up speed as Britain joins high-speed rail club
4 September 2007

LONDON (AP) - A new high-speed train link on Tuesday brought Paris and London closer than ever before, making the 345-kilometer (215-mile) journey in just over two hours.

For the first time the 18-coach Eurostar train did not have to hit the brakes until it reached its destination, thanks to the completion of Britain's first 5.8 billion-pound (US$11.7 billion, euro8.6 billion) high-speed route, which runs for 68 miles (109 kilometers) from the Channel Tunnel near the coastal city of Folkestone to central London.

"We have a new record," claimed Eurostar CEO Richard Brown as the train sped into the newly refurbished St. Pancras train station in central London, two hours, three minutes and 39 seconds after leaving Paris' Gare du Nord.

The train traveled at speeds of more than 320 kilometers per hour (200 miles per hour) in France and reached the maximum of 299 kph (186 mph) on the British section.

That's slightly faster than the train will go when the new track enters regular service Nov. 14. Then it will make the Paris-to-London journey -- slightly longer than the distance from New York to Washington, D.C. -- in two hours and 15 minutes, shaving 20 minutes off current travel times.

Arriving in London Tuesday, passengers were met with a very French travel problem: Subway workers were on strike, much to the amusement of French people traveling aboard.

Strikes aside, Eurostar forecasts a 25 percent rise in traffic by 2010 as the faster service attracts day trippers and travelers from the north of England.

The current route into London's Waterloo International will close in November when services switch to St. Pancras.

"I'll be saving time so of course it's a good thing," said Antoine Pascal, a busy equities derivative broker for TFS Brokers in London, who commutes to Paris at least once every 10 days.

"It's better than the plane because airports make for a complicated journey. An extra 20 minutes is important for business people."

The new St. Pancras International terminal is better connected both with the rest of London -- via six underground lines -- and to the rest of Britain with rail links to the north.

"A big thumbs up from us," said Neil Rami, chief executive of Marketing Birmingham, an agency that promotes the central English city. The new Eurostar link, he said, "will make it even easier for business and leisure tourists to access the heart of the UK."

The Victorian glory of the St. Pancras station has been restored with a 400 million-pound (US$800 million, euro600 million) makeover. For tourists, a computer booking system will be available from November offering through fares to destinations such as Cambridge and Bordeaux. Eventually, Eurostar hopes to run services such as London-Amsterdam.

By March, Eurostar will be running 18 daily return journeys, up from the current 16.

Brown said he hopes the success of the service will persuade the British government to invest in other high-speed rail links.

Ian Gardner, vice chairman of the Scottish Tourism Forum in Edinburgh urged similar speeded-up lines within Britain as well. Still, he added, "Anything that makes Britain a more accessible and attractive destination has got to be welcomed."

Though Eurostar will pay more for using the new track, it has pledged to keep fares level at euro77 (US$104) or 59 pounds for an economy return ticket. The shortfall will be made up by an increase in passenger traffic, Brown said.

As an added benefit for French passengers, the new London destination no longer invokes painful memories of Napoleon's defeat to the British at Waterloo, the battlefield that lent its name to the current terminal.

Eurostar's French president, Guillaume Pepy, said the theme of the French publicity campaign will be: "Forget Waterloo."

------

Associated Press writers Thomas Wagner in London and Antonio Oliveira in Paris contributed to this report.

------
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Old September 7th, 2007, 08:18 AM   #220
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We are left lagging behind the south again
6 September 2007
The Herald

CONGRATULATIONS to Eurostar on the record high-speed run from to London, aided by the new purposebuilt railway from the tunnel to St Pancras. We've waited long enough for it.

Zero marks, though, to successive British governments for their shortsightedness and lack of transport planning vision which ensures that really high-speed train travel stops at London.

The European high-speed rail network has been advancing steadily in France, Belgium and Germany during the past few decades, and state-of-the-art railway technology is regarded as an essential part of their transport infrastructure. It's not something special.

Meanwhile, in the UK, we continue to tinker around with improvements on railways following routes designed and built in the nineteenth century. Scotland, the Midlands and the north of England are served by trains travelling at around 125mph while passengers hurtle through the continent at speeds approaching 200mph.

Despite the environmental concern about the huge growth in low-cost airline flights, the UK government seems to be making no moves to catch up with the rest of Europe. I see no technical reason why I should not expect to board a train at Glasgow Central and arrive in Frankfurt about six hours later, comforted by the knowledge that my carbon footprint would be considerably less than f lying.

Perhaps it's time that business leaders and individuals in the "regions" reminded our London political masters that we are not happy about this obvious neglect and will bear this in mind at the next General Election.

Dave Stewart, 129 Novar Drive, Glasgow, SCOTLAND rejoice! You can now save 20 minutes on a train journey from the newly refurbished St Pancras station in London to Paris in two hours, three minutes and 39 seconds. The refurbishment of St Pancras station cost GBP800m and the associated rail costs are so far unknown, but the 20-minute benefit cannot truly be measured in real terms for anyone living and working in Scotland. This has to be another crucial example of the much-vaunted Union dividend, of course.
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