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Old April 7th, 2014, 08:01 PM   #2381
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OK. Thank you for the correction.

So, not such a big difference in the case of Paris.
But still leading the stats, which was something I was expecting, but certain forumers didn┤t, or so I understood.

And there┤s still much room for improvement (I┤m thinking about the Easter and summer holidays), timetables in particular.

The numbers can only increase as time goes by and more and more people get used to it, and in particular when the HSL section Nimes-Montpellier will open.

It┤s rather telling that routes like Figueres-Perpignan or Barcelona-Perpignan, which have historically existed or in which the HSR service exists for longer, get more passengers than Girona-Perpignan, Barcelona-Toulouse or Barcelona-Marseille. People are still getting used to it.
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Old April 7th, 2014, 08:08 PM   #2382
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As well, it is important to consider holiday periods in France are not uniform for all the regions: in Paris region spring holiday are from the 12th to 27th April, while in the Rh˘ne-Alpes, Languedoc and Midi-Pyrenees regions are from the 26th April to the 11th May. If management by Renfe and SNCF in cooperation would be flexible and quick enough, services should be reinforced depending on those local factors.
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Old April 7th, 2014, 08:22 PM   #2383
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New services take a while to get known by potential users, and more time to generate new travel patterns made possible by new services (I'm talking of 3-5 years).

There hadn't been good train connections between Languedoc, Provence or the Rh˘ne-Alps with Spain. Services had always been slow. Now there are new high-speed lines covering the better part of these routes, so Madrid-Perpignan is no longer a very long journey any longer.

It takes time for these new services to get traction with the travel market between those areas. Some might be diversion from air travel, some might be new people travelling because now it is faster to do so.

A similar process happened when vastly improved services came alive between Belgium and France, and also when new high-speed lines slashed travel times between Berlin and Hannover, K÷ln and Frankfurt.
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Old April 7th, 2014, 10:14 PM   #2384
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Originally Posted by Reivajar View Post
As well, it is important to consider holiday periods in France are not uniform for all the regions: in Paris region spring holiday are from the 12th to 27th April, while in the Rh˘ne-Alpes, Languedoc and Midi-Pyrenees regions are from the 26th April to the 11th May. If management by Renfe and SNCF in cooperation would be flexible and quick enough, services should be reinforced depending on those local factors.
I don┤t think that the services will be reinforced.
Next year maybe (or maybe not), but first they┤ll see how it works these holidays first.

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New services take a while to get known by potential users, and more time to generate new travel patterns made possible by new services (I'm talking of 3-5 years).

There hadn't been good train connections between Languedoc, Provence or the Rh˘ne-Alps with Spain. Services had always been slow. Now there are new high-speed lines covering the better part of these routes, so Madrid-Perpignan is no longer a very long journey any longer.

It takes time for these new services to get traction with the travel market between those areas. Some might be diversion from air travel, some might be new people travelling because now it is faster to do so.

A similar process happened when vastly improved services came alive between Belgium and France, and also when new high-speed lines slashed travel times between Berlin and Hannover, K÷ln and Frankfurt.
The main difference is that in France, in Belgium, or in Germany, there always was the habit of traveling by train, in any case more than in Spain, which is far more car-oriented (or non-train-oriented).

So probably the services will take longer to sink in in the minds of the people, as historically there had never been the habit of travelling by train to/from Spain.
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Old April 8th, 2014, 02:00 AM   #2385
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It depends. Running under different AC voltages is not that hard, as all you need is an extra tap on the transformer. However a 50Hz transformer is less efficient under 16.6 Hz, so available power is lower. Unless you install a heavier transformer, as is currently more or less standard for AC locomotives.
However, DC can't be that easily transformed. So in most cases, in order to run under both 3kV and 1,5 kV DC some more complex switching is needed. Often it's done by putting motors pairwise in series under 3kV, and all in parallel under 1,5 kV. Not really easy to retrofit...
Actually, a 3kV train can run unmodified at 1.5kV (unless it has under voltage protection), but just at half the power. This has been done for decades to let Belgian trains continue to the first Dutch hub past the border.
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Old April 8th, 2014, 02:03 AM   #2386
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Well, it sounds like when I use European appliances at 220-240V on Northamerican electric outlets at 125V...

Is it good for the engines?

Anyway, half power means half top speed... I don't know if it could be applied in those international services.
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Old April 8th, 2014, 06:57 AM   #2387
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Actually, a 3kV train can run unmodified at 1.5kV (unless it has under voltage protection), but just at half the power. This has been done for decades to let Belgian trains continue to the first Dutch hub past the border.
But this only works with mostly older rolling stock. Modern trains complain (and shut down) when the voltage is to low...
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Old April 8th, 2014, 07:01 AM   #2388
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Do you mean "from Switzerland", but not "to Switzerland"?
Passengers buying tickets in Switzerland...

For example the TGV Lyria trains from ZŘrich - Basel to Paris also take domestic passengers (from Mullhouse and Dijon for example), but these don't get the same service level as passengers travelling on Lyria tickets. A 1st class TGV Lyria passenger gets a free meal for example.
Lyria is just branding and service. The trains are still owned and operated by SNCF (and SBB)
I'm sure that a Geneve - Barcelona train will also take passengers from eg. Valence to Perpignan. But these passengers will have normal SNCF tickets. Lyria will not be involved here.
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Old April 8th, 2014, 11:52 AM   #2389
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Originally Posted by DingeZ View Post
Actually, a 3kV train can run unmodified at 1.5kV (unless it has under voltage protection), but just at half the power. This has been done for decades to let Belgian trains continue to the first Dutch hub past the border.
P=U**2/R ; so 1/2 tension means 1/4 power.

Running a 3 kV locomotive under half tension is very common at border
stations : it's business as usual for SNCB locomotives at Roosendaal or
Maastricht, but also for SNCF locomotives in Vintimiglia. But it's not a regular
practice for longer journeys, because the penalty in terms of loss of power is
too high.

3 kV ocomotives that have minimal voltage protection (most have) can have
that protection switched off when venturing under 1.5 kV catenary. For SNCB
it's RTN (relais de tension nulle), normally going out at 2.2 kV but the driver
can disable it.

On the other end, it's usually not a problem to transform a 3 kV locomotive
to also accept 1.5 kV power. SNCB did it with the HLE 25.5 series. The opposite
is more complicated because all the electric insulation needs to be
redone, and even sometimes, the electric insulation class of the motors will
not accept it.
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Old April 8th, 2014, 12:00 PM   #2390
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Quote:
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But this only works with mostly older rolling stock. Modern trains complain (and shut down) when the voltage is to low...
Desiro Main Line SNCB EMUs go to Maastricht now, so under 1.5 kV, although
they are strictly 3 kV and brand new. I suppose however that the capability
to do that was spec'ed when those units were ordered.

I have not heard about SNCB HLE 13 or 18 going to Maastricht or Roosendaal,
though. For HLE 18 it's normal - their purchase has been subsidized by the
belgian government so they can't be used in freight traffic - but HLE 13 are
essentially diagrammed for freight today, so Roosendaal should be a regular
destination.
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Old April 8th, 2014, 04:51 PM   #2391
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future TGV service Spain-Switzerland

Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
Passengers buying tickets in Switzerland...

For example the TGV Lyria trains from ZŘrich - Basel to Paris also take domestic passengers (from Mullhouse and Dijon for example), but these don't get the same service level as passengers travelling on Lyria tickets. A 1st class TGV Lyria passenger gets a free meal for example.
Lyria is just branding and service. The trains are still owned and operated by SNCF (and SBB)
I'm sure that a Geneve - Barcelona train will also take passengers from eg. Valence to Perpignan. But these passengers will have normal SNCF tickets. Lyria will not be involved here.
Now there┤s a few questions.

Is there a TGV-Lyria website for trips to Switzerland, or can you buy your tickets at the SBB/CFF and/or Sncf websites too?

And if it┤s the latter option, and the service Spain-Switzerland is finally done through TGV-Lyria, will the Renfe and Sncf websites be selling tickets for it, too?

And if the answer to the last question was yes, then, would the passengers buying their tickets at the Renfe and/or Sncf websites get the same level of service than those who purchase at the TGV-Lyria website?

And last question, will the passengers buying their tickets at Renfe stations (not via the Internet) for trips from Spain to/from Switzerland (or France to/from Switzerland) get the same level of service than those buying them via the TGV-Lyria website?
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Old April 8th, 2014, 07:25 PM   #2392
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Now there┤s a few questions. Is there a TGV-Lyria website for trips to Switzerland, or can you buy your tickets at the SBB/CFF and/or Sncf websites too? And if it┤s the latter option, and the service Spain-Switzerland is finally done through TGV-Lyria, will the Renfe and Sncf websites be selling tickets for it, too? And if the answer to the last question was yes, then, would the passengers buying their tickets at the Renfe and/or Sncf websites get the same level of service than those who purchase at the TGV-Lyria website? And last question, will the passengers buying their tickets at Renfe stations (not via the Internet) for trips from Spain to/from Switzerland (or France to/from Switzerland) get the same level of service than those buying them via the TGV-Lyria website?
Tickets for TGV journeys to/from Switzerland have always been available from SNCF and SBB, via their normal sales channels, ie, both on line and off line. In fact, any agency linked in to the European reservation system can sell those tickets. RENFE could already sell tickets to Switzerland right now.
And those tickets will have SBB an SNCF transportation codes on them. They're the companies you're traveling with. You can't actually buy tickets on the Lyria website...
Lyria is just a brand. And the extra service in 1st class is for everyone with an international ticket. Domestic Swiss or French tickets don't enjoy this service.
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Old April 8th, 2014, 10:41 PM   #2393
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News!!

The AVE class 100 keep on doing their tests in France, they┤ve been testing in coupling on the classic line between Lyon-Vaise and Mulhouse (not sure wether via Dijon or via Lons-le-Saunier), to homologate the 160 km/h under 25 kV on classic line (looks like now they┤re allowed 140 km/h only between Grenay junction and Lyon-Part-Dieu).


Rumour...

Read somefink abowt tee gee vee Brassells Varsloner in the kitchens, beeing cookd, not sher abowt when er how. dontcha tell no won, wontcha. if yer tell ill kill yer.
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Old April 9th, 2014, 01:06 AM   #2394
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What does it mean? They are maybe considering services between Spain and the German border?
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Old April 9th, 2014, 01:51 AM   #2395
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What does it mean? They are maybe considering services between Spain and the German border?
It means that they┤re testing. And since Alstom is in Belfort (Franche-ComtÚ), it┤s quite practical to test around Belfort, and thus between Mulhouse and Lyon.

And no they aren┤t considering anything beyond Lyon now (Geneva excepted, but that┤s another story and it┤s going to be a TGV, not an AVE).
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Old April 9th, 2014, 01:56 AM   #2396
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Maybe they could test an AVE to Belgium, Netherlands and London :p

I read two years ago RENFE had several AVE trains parked on depots, unused, since there wasn't demand of passenger services to allocate them. What is the rolling stock situation now?
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Old April 9th, 2014, 02:27 AM   #2397
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Maybe they could test an AVE to Belgium, Netherlands and London :p

I read two years ago RENFE had several AVE trains parked on depots, unused, since there wasn't demand of passenger services to allocate them. What is the rolling stock situation now?
Much less unused. In fact, the Alvia rolling stock (more than the AVE itself) is starting to be a bit strained. The AVE are much more used, and that will only increase. An order of rolling stock won┤t take too long.

The reasons why are the opening of the Alicante HSL, the start of the new services to France, and in particular the new fare system, which has led to more trains running to cope with the demand at certain periods.

This will only increase with the new openings (next year will open Olmedo-Zamora, Valladolid-Venta de Ba˝os-Palencia and Palencia-Leon, and the upgrade of Santiago-Vigo, and by the end of this year the upgrade of Seville-Cadiz will be ready -it almost is).
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Old April 9th, 2014, 10:32 AM   #2398
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The AVE class 100 keep on doing their tests in France, they┤ve been testing in coupling on the classic line between Lyon-Vaise and Mulhouse (not sure wether via Dijon or via Lons-le-Saunier), to homologate the 160 km/h under 25 kV on classic line (looks like now they┤re allowed 140 km/h only between Grenay junction and Lyon-Part-Dieu).
I wondered why there were an AVE parked 200 meters from my home on weekends. Thanks for the explanation !
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Old April 9th, 2014, 02:34 PM   #2399
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What about a Brussels-Barcelona service? In Belgium there is a large spanish comunity, and also many belgians spend their hollydays is Spain...
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Old April 9th, 2014, 02:37 PM   #2400
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I wondered why there were an AVE parked 200 meters from my home on weekends. Thanks for the explanation !
Take a picture.
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