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Old April 16th, 2014, 12:32 PM   #2421
pietje01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
Definitely. but rather than building this expensive underground infrastructure
under Paris, why not organise the change in Lille ? A TGV Lille-Barcelona
avoiding Paris (well, parisians could still catch it at Roissy) would be perfectly
feasable and it would serve both London and Brussels markets.
Or even better: abolish the silly security theatre between UK and Schengen, allowing a direct service from London to Barcelona
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Old April 16th, 2014, 05:13 PM   #2422
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Or even better: abolish the silly security theatre between UK and Schengen, allowing a direct service from London to Barcelona
You can't change MP's mind, if they are afraid of country's personal security. As far I remember, Britain is afraid of illigeal immigrants and they didn't want any newcomers to live there. If I wrong, correct me
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Old April 16th, 2014, 05:34 PM   #2423
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From Railway Gazette:

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http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/f...ght-train.html

Distributed diesel traction tested on Europe’s longest freight train
16 Apr 2014





EUROPE: On April 12 Fret SNCF operated a 1 524 m long freight train between Sibelin yard near Lyon and Nîmes, hauled at up to 100 km/h by two Euro 4000 diesel locomotives built by Vossloh España. Weighing 4 020 tonnes, ‘the longest freight train ever run in Europe’ comprised 72 wagons originally formed as separate rakes of 40 and 32 vehicles, operating regular Kombiverkehr intermodal services between Germany and Spain.

The second locomotive marshalled within the consist was controlled remotely from the head of the train, following work by Vossloh to develop new radio antennae and modify the driver’s desk. The radio control system has been developed by Createch and Schweizer Electronic, while Faiveley has been responsible for braking systems.

Diesel traction has been tested during the second phase of trials under Project Marathon, a programme funded by the European Union which aims to reduce operating costs by 30% and increase capacity on key corridors by operating longer freight trains.

Noting that the record train length had been made possible by the various skills of the 16 project partners, French Transport Minister Frédéric Cuvillier said that regular operation of longer freight trains on the major European corridors was ‘clearly foreseeable’ within two years. Routes being considered within France include those from Paris to Lille and Bayonne near the Spanish border, as well as Paris – Marseille, Paris – Le Havre and Bettembourg – Perpignan which are already able to accommodate freight trains up to 850 m in length.
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Old April 18th, 2014, 12:14 PM   #2424
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You can't change MP's mind, if they are afraid of country's personal security. As far I remember, Britain is afraid of illigeal immigrants and they didn't want any newcomers to live there. If I wrong, correct me
The security theatre has nothing to do with fear of illegal immigrants. If it's ok to have passengers from Eurostars from Brussels pass through passport control upon arrival in London this should not be a problem for trains from Barcelona either.
No the problem is the luggage check. The requirement to scan everyone's suitcases, and to completely isolate the train from the other trains in the stations it calls at. This is done because of a mind boggling detachment from reality from the part of the UK authorities.
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Old April 18th, 2014, 03:41 PM   #2425
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There are other possibilities to avoid Paris : for example, from Brussels,
you can take a TGV at 10:31 that takes you to Valence TGV at 14:40
and from there a TGV at 16:21 that arrives in Barcelona at 20:40. That's
a long journey, but it will be stressless...
This involves hanging around Valence TGV for 1h41min. Hardly a good connection...
You're faster with a change in Paris.
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Old April 19th, 2014, 05:25 PM   #2426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
The security theatre has nothing to do with fear of illegal immigrants. If it's ok to have passengers from Eurostars from Brussels pass through passport control upon arrival in London this should not be a problem for trains from Barcelona either.
No the problem is the luggage check. The requirement to scan everyone's suitcases, and to completely isolate the train from the other trains in the stations it calls at. This is done because of a mind boggling detachment from reality from the part of the UK authorities.
They don't check Brussels passengers in London though, they do it in Brussels. They sometimes to additional checks on arrival, usually customs but normally you just walk out into the station.
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Old April 19th, 2014, 10:52 PM   #2427
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They don't check Brussels passengers in London though, they do it in Brussels. They sometimes to additional checks on arrival, usually customs but normally you just walk out into the station.
I know they don't do this for all trains. But they do this for trains that stop in Lille, and it shows that doing the immigration check on arrival is a possibility. (It's never a customs check though. It's border police.)
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Old April 20th, 2014, 11:19 PM   #2428
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This involves hanging around Valence TGV for 1h41min. Hardly a good connection...
You're faster with a change in Paris.
Yes I know. But look at the bright side, with such a delay, this connection,
you're not going to miss it. And you avoid Paris and the metro/RER trip.
Many people are afraid of that. I'm not, but I might consider this route
anyway, the long stopover being a good opportunity for a meal, much better
and less expensive than what you could get on board.
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Old April 20th, 2014, 11:28 PM   #2429
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Yes I know. But look at the bright side, with such a delay, this connection, you're not going to miss it. And you avoid Paris and the metro/RER trip. Many people are afraid of that. I'm not, but I might consider this route anyway, the long stopover being a good opportunity for a meal, much better and less expensive than what you could get on board.
Except that there really isn't much on offer in Valence TGV...
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Old April 20th, 2014, 11:39 PM   #2430
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Except that there really isn't much on offer in Valence TGV...
Can you buy ravioles or pognes, or other good Drôme things at the Valence-TGV station, or only LU biscuits and so on?
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Old April 21st, 2014, 12:09 AM   #2431
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Building more stores or restaurants at a station is relatively cheaper, if demand is there.

Changing in Paris via RER is easy for connoisseurs of the ATAP network. It is not exactly comfortable if you have luggage (not because of the train itself but because it is full at peak times), and it is not exactly that easy if you never been in Paris.
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Old April 21st, 2014, 11:02 AM   #2432
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Building more stores or restaurants at a station is relatively cheaper, if demand is there.
The problem with Valence TGV is that it is outside of the city centre. A station like that will never provide enough customers to support a lively restaurant scene, like in Paris.
If I have an hour to kill in Paris Nord I just cross the street. Plenty of good French bistros and restaurants there.
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Old April 21st, 2014, 11:12 AM   #2433
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Building more stores or restaurants at a station is relatively cheaper, if demand is there.

Changing in Paris via RER is easy for connoisseurs of the ATAP network. It is not exactly comfortable if you have luggage (not because of the train itself but because it is full at peak times), and it is not exactly that easy if you never been in Paris.
Changing using the RER is not that hard. It is well signposted. The main draw back is that you have to buy a ticket again, and that you are not covered by the normal railway terms and conditions if there is a disruption.
SNCF should arrange with RATP for through tickets to include metro travel, just as it is in London.

However, a better coordination of the Intersecteur TGVs would be convenient.
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Old April 21st, 2014, 06:46 PM   #2434
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Does commuter service and intercity trains share the same track in major cities in Europe? Or do they have separate railway lines?
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Old April 21st, 2014, 10:09 PM   #2435
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Mostly the same except for high speed lines which have no commuter traffic.
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Old April 21st, 2014, 10:21 PM   #2436
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In stations ? You have both cases. In Paris stations for example, Intercity and
suburban trains are mostly separated. In Germany, S-bahn tracks are often
separated too. Other countries (Belgium, Netherlands, Switzerland...) usually
mix all the traffic on the same tracks.

Outside stations, if traffic levels require it, you may have two track pairs, in
which case there is (not always) a pair for fast traffic and the other one for
slower trains.

And of course, high-speed tracks are mostly always specialized - but not
always : we have some high-speed lines with freight traffic.
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Old April 21st, 2014, 10:27 PM   #2437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bagus70 View Post
Does commuter service and intercity trains share the same track in major cities in Europe? Or do they have separate railway lines?
Both.
In big cities they tend to have separate tracks, or an extra track(s) parallel to intercity.
In smaller towns they tend to be mixed at the same tracks.
But this aren't absolute rule, and there is a fair number of exceptions.
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Old April 21st, 2014, 10:27 PM   #2438
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Changing using the RER is not that hard. It is well signposted.
Not that hard ? You have to buy a ticket, sometimes at a machine where there
is an half-an-hour queue. Then find your track, decipher the signage, which is
done for the people who alreaqdy know the system, not those who discover it,
Then get on the right train, get off at the right station, and find you way to
the departure track of your next train - all of that making sure you won't miss
it. For people used to get around public transport system, hardly a challenge.
But for people not used to that, may be not understanding french, it can turn
easily into a nightmare. Compared with how easy it is to navigate an airport...
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Old April 21st, 2014, 10:37 PM   #2439
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You need a bit of guesswork to realize that you are looking for "Grandes Lignes" at Gare de Lyon, for instance.

Theoretically, you could travel between both stations (Gare du Nord and Gare de Lyon) in less than 30 min, comfortably. But that would be risky if you have another train to catch, one that has a proper reservation, and that you bought tickets for well in advance. So prudent people would schedule at least a 60 min interval (90 if getting into an Eurostar to London).

RER is also quite full on peak time. Riding any full subway/commuter train with many people standing while you cling to your luggage and find space to grab a handler is stressful for most passengers.
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Old April 22nd, 2014, 12:04 AM   #2440
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Riding any full subway/commuter train with many people standing while you cling to your luggage and find space to grab a handler is stressful for most passengers.
Not even counting the fact that you have long walks and stairs between the
different stations. For someone not used to that, even a dwell time of 2 hours
in a desertic station will definitely be better than that.
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