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Old May 1st, 2014, 03:17 PM   #2481
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München-Praha in Norwegian. According to the EU TEN-T schemes, Berlin-Nürnberg-München-Roma-Palermo will be a trunk line, while Nürnberg-Plzeň-Praha-Brno-Wien (and Dresden-Praha-Linz-Wien) will just be secondary lines in the future.
I guess that is a reason all international lines via Praha have been rather neglected. By 2017, the northern half of the Berlin-Palermo corridor will be so developed that even when going from Berlin to Vienna or Budapest, it will be faster to go along the corridor via Nürnberg, although the map shows how big a detour that is. The direct route via Praha will however remain much cheaper. Some work is planned on developing Berlin-Dresden to the speed it had reached in 1938, but the more fanciful projects such as an HSR Dresden-Prague will probably remain a fantasy.
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Old May 1st, 2014, 08:31 PM   #2482
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That's just stupid.
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Old May 12th, 2014, 12:39 PM   #2483
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New international Trains commence in Southeast Europe

After years of canceling services, 4 new international trains were introduced in Southeast Europe last weekend. As of May 10, there are finally again international trains from Greece:
1. Thessaloniki-Beograd. The night train will use couchette cars from the Macedonian Railways.
2. Thessaloniki-Sofia. There is one daily train that has onward connection to Athens in Thessaloniki.
3. Vidin-Craiova. Twice daily there is a local train using the new Danube Bridge in the West of the two countries. The train takes 3 hours and in Vidin there is always a connection with Sofia within 45-60 minutes. Connections are not so good on the Romanian side. See http://bdz.bg/p.php?id=ext_razp (the last two links in the list) and http://w3.srbrail.rs/zsredvoznje/?lang=sr for the schedules.
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Old May 12th, 2014, 01:02 PM   #2484
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I guess that is a reason all international lines via Praha have been rather neglected. By 2017, the northern half of the Berlin-Palermo corridor will be so developed that even when going from Berlin to Vienna or Budapest, it will be faster to go along the corridor via Nürnberg, although the map shows how big a detour that is. The direct route via Praha will however remain much cheaper. Some work is planned on developing Berlin-Dresden to the speed it had reached in 1938, but the more fanciful projects such as an HSR Dresden-Prague will probably remain a fantasy.
Additionally there won't be any direct EC service between Vienna and Berlin via Prague no more. Vindobona is going to be canceled with the next timetable change in December.
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Old May 12th, 2014, 01:25 PM   #2485
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Additionally there won't be any direct EC service between Vienna and Berlin via Prague no more. Vindobona is going to be canceled with the next timetable change in December.
Isn't it faster a route via Salzburg and München?
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Old May 12th, 2014, 03:50 PM   #2486
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No. Try Hafas and enter berlin-vienna. You get pretty much the same times (about 9 hrs) for either B-Dresden-Praha-Brno-Vienna or Berlin-Leipzig/Halle-Jena-Nürnberg-Passau-Wels-Linz-Vienna. But considering the Praha route is conventional and not very fast at that and very scenic whereas the second route in some parts counts as HSR with speeds at 200 or 250, it is a bit mad to follow the second route. To go via München and Salzburg instead of Passau though would definitively take longer.
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Old May 12th, 2014, 11:32 PM   #2487
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Why the EU ignoring the rail corridors out of Prague?

Last edited by LtBk; May 13th, 2014 at 12:25 AM.
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Old May 13th, 2014, 03:45 AM   #2488
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The EU isn't ignoring anything, but it's up to the member states to come up with projects in order to get funding. It cannot be the other way round.

To my knowledge the south corridor from Prague towards Brno and Breclav is constantly being upgraded, but this brainchild of a HS-link between Prague and Dresden is not going to happen any day soon.

Current TEN-T projects in CZ: http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes...d-files/cz.pdf
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Old May 13th, 2014, 06:32 AM   #2489
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Thanks for the link.
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Old May 13th, 2014, 09:13 AM   #2490
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These are missed, or hopefully merely severely delayed opportunities. The only corridor shorter than Berlin-Dresden-Prague-Brno-Vienna would be Berlin-Dresden-Prague-Jihlava-Vienna.

Likewise a line Munich-Nuremberg-Plzen-Vaclav Havel airport-Prague-Wroclaw-Lodz-Warsaw would make a lot of sense, but I don't think either the Germans, Czechs, or the Poles think that way. Nuremberg-Prague sure (but not by the airport, which would have made it a regional airport for most of Bohemia), but not further on. The Czechs don't see the benefit of linking up with the Poles and the Poles don't see the benefit of linking up with the Czechs.

In particular the Poles don't see that they could link up the old/new industry powerhouses of Lodz and Wroclaw (and the capital, though there air may be competitive) with Bavaria. The distance Wroclaw-Munich is 513 km, 811 km Warsaw-Munich, these are good distances. Assuming fairly straight tracks (these cities are almost on a line, though Nuremberg is a detour) and 200 km/h average speed, that would be less than 3 hours, and 4 hours respectively.

Today the train connection Prague-Wroclaw is ridiculous. The fastest route twice a day is 6 hours 19 minutes and takes two train changes, others take 7-9 hours. The distance is 214 km, it should be done in little more than an hour, a day commute between the cities would be feasible.
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Old May 13th, 2014, 09:39 AM   #2491
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I made a map to illustrate these points. The orange is the Polish Y backbone under discussion, the green line is the Berlin-Dresden-Prague-Jihlava-Vienna, and the blue line is Munich-Nuremberg-Plzen-Vaclav Havel airport-Prague-Wroclaw.
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Old May 13th, 2014, 12:48 PM   #2492
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Thanx, jax. Yes, this is definitely a region of lost opportunities. In December, DB/PKP will withdraw the direct Hamburg-Berlin-Cottbus-Wroclaw EC train. Instead DB now operates a bus on that route.
About the Jihlava-Retz variety for getting from Prague to Vienna, I had never thought about that. At present there are RegionalExpress double-deckers between Znojmo and Vienna and as far as I know only small classic DMUs between Znojmo and Jihlava. The countryside at least on the Austrian side is rolling hills, not the easiest but not the most difficult terrain for an upgrade or new route.
But what I had always assumed would eventually replace the Brno detour for Prague-Vienna was the Franz-Josefs-Bahn heading straight south from Prague and then slightly turning Southeast. That would be Praha-Tabor-Veseli-Gmünd, or in a slightly bigger detour, Veseli-C. Budjovice-Linz to then join the Westbahn. Does anyone know the state of redevelopment on this line or lines and whether one day they could be a good alternative to the Brno corridor?

Last edited by Baron Hirsch; May 13th, 2014 at 10:44 PM.
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Old May 13th, 2014, 01:36 PM   #2493
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The Jihlava alternative was mostly to show that it is pretty much a straight line. When everything is considered, the line would probably go through Brno even though it is a small detour for anyone not going to Brno. Prague - Brno - Bratislava would still be the trunk line for Czechs and Slovaks. I added your routes to the map as well (they are all conceptual, not "real").
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Old May 17th, 2014, 12:56 AM   #2494
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News!!

New AVE/TGV services Spain/France.

I´m not entirely sure wether the new Barcelona-Toulouse service is a replacement of the current one or a second train.
If someone knows about it or learns about it, please do tell us about it.

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Old May 17th, 2014, 08:32 PM   #2495
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The 4th Paris - Barcelona TGV is now appearing on the Renfe website, but not yet on Voyages-SNCF. Prices start at € 59 one way.


Here are the time tables for Paris - Barcelona as per July 6th:
Code:
+-----------------------------+-----------------------------------+
|                             | Train no and departure time       |
+-----------------------------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
| Station                     |  9711  |  9713  |  9715  |  9717  |
+-----------------------------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
| Paris Gare de Lyon          |   7:15 |  10:07 |  14:07 |  16:07 |
| Valence TGV Rhone-Alpes Sud |    |   |  12:21 |  16:21 |  18:21 |
| Nimes                       |  10:09 |  13:09 |  17:09 |  19:09 |
| Montpellier Saint-Roch      |  10:37 |  13:37 |  17:37 |  19:41 |
| Sete                        |    |   |    |   |    |   |  20:01 |
| Agde                        |    |   |    |   |    |   |  20:17 |
| Beziers                     |    |   |  14:18 |    |   |  20:31 |
| Narbonne                    |  11:35 |  14:35 |  18:35 |  20:47 |
| Perpignan                   |  12:13 |  15:13 |  19:13 |  21:25 |
| Figueres Vilafant           |  12:45 |  15:43 |  19:45 |  21:53 |
| Girona                      |  13:01 |  15:59 |  20:01 |  22:09 |
| Barcelona-Sants             | A13:40 | A16:38 | A20:40 | A22:48 |
+-----------------------------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
Code:
+-----------------------------+-----------------------------------+
|                             | Train no and departure time       |
+-----------------------------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
| Station                     |  9700  |  9702  |  9704  |  9706  |
+-----------------------------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
| Barcelona-Sants             |   6:05 |   9:20 |  13:20 |  16:20 |
| Girona                      |   6:46 |  10:01 |  14:01 |  17:01 |
| Figueres Vilafant           |   7:03 |  10:18 |  14:18 |  17:18 |
| Perpignan                   |   7:37 |  10:51 |  14:50 |  17:51 |
| Narbonne                    |   8:14 |  11:28 |  15:27 |  18:27 |
| Beziers                     |   8:31 |    |   |    |   |  18:44 |
| Agde                        |   8:46 |    |   |    |   |    |   |
| Sete                        |   9:02 |    |   |    |   |    |   |
| Montpellier Saint-Roch      |   9:24 |  12:25 |  16:24 |  19:24 |
| Nimes                       |   9:52 |  12:52 |  16:52 |  19:52 |
| Valence TGV Rhone-Alpes Sud |    |   |  13:41 |  17:41 |    |   |
| Paris Gare de Lyon          | A12:45 | A15:53 | A19:53 | A22:45 |
+-----------------------------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
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Old May 18th, 2014, 12:10 AM   #2496
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€ 150 for one way is outrageous.
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Old May 18th, 2014, 01:08 AM   #2497
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150 euros for the 2:00pm train but only 59 for the 10:00am train.
Yield management is incomprehensible sometimes.
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Old May 18th, 2014, 03:01 PM   #2498
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€ 150 for one way is outrageous.
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150 euros for the 2:00pm train but only 59 for the 10:00am train.
Yield management is incomprehensible sometimes.
Could it be that for the train with €159 seats, those are the last ones, and that the rest of trains have more seats left to offer, and that makes them cheaper?
Remember that these timetables start on July 6, so that will be the beginning of the summer peak, which on this route will be particularly strong, maybe even more than on the Nice route.
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Old May 18th, 2014, 03:14 PM   #2499
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An ad in the Barcelona metro:

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"Aix-en-Provenance"!!
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Old May 18th, 2014, 08:43 PM   #2500
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Shame that they can't build a link through the Massif Central and Clermont-Ferrand. Barcelona-Paris would be even faster.
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