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Old November 15th, 2014, 06:32 PM   #2781
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The more reason to keep them in the UK and extend facilities there.
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Old November 15th, 2014, 06:41 PM   #2782
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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Run what?
A train, what else? Stopping for 90 min in Lille will never make it more than a niche service.
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Old November 15th, 2014, 06:43 PM   #2783
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Does pulling the emergency brake on a Eurostar set still stop the train?
Don't think so, if its anything like modern units over here then it'll alert the driver and they then can either cancel the alert and speak to the passenger via a telephone link to the PasCom activation location.
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Old November 15th, 2014, 07:34 PM   #2784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
A train, what else? Stopping for 90 min in Lille will never make it more than a niche service.
Since HSL Zuid opened, Thalys/NS-HiSpeed/NS-International have been advertising more prominently connecting services to London (transfer in Bruxelles-Midi). How many tickets are sold between Netherlands and London - would be an interesting statistic to know? DB used to promote these services but now they kinda disappeared from their advertising campaigns, after it withdrew from Thalys.

I think DB still sells on its website those special tickets between London and Berlin for € 59/one-way, for courageous people willing to spend 11h on the train, only in one combination of trains per day.
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Old November 15th, 2014, 08:13 PM   #2785
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All three stations were/are being rebuilt or significantly renovated over last decade, it was a huge mistake not to include segregated set of 2 platforms for international services to/from UK, since both the Channel Tunnel and all plans for high-speed rail links all the way for Amsterdam were there, or under construction, when these stations started their major projects.
Why would irrational paranoia be a good reason to spend money?
We need a return to sanity. Not dedicated Eurostar platforms.
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Old November 15th, 2014, 10:27 PM   #2786
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It reminds me of this smiley:
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Old November 16th, 2014, 12:07 PM   #2787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I think DB still sells on its website those special tickets between London and Berlin for 59/one-way, for courageous people willing to spend 11h on the train, only in one combination of trains per day.
Yes, and I am one of the suckers who falls for it. DB and E* both have special offers that include connecting services between ICEs and E* in Brussels. A direct train or connections without the security hassle could of course reduce riding times to ca. 9 hrs. However, connections from/to Cologne, the Ruhr and Frankfurt would be competitive city center to city center. However surveys have shown that while E* has a large market share on its direct rides to PAris and Brussels among business travelrs, hardly anyone can be bothered with the complicated change of platforms and long layovers in Brussels to continue to Germany.
For Berlin, the dream would be - if enlightenment ever strikes this continent again and border paranoia is reduced and international train cooperations come back - a high speed sleeper, which I am sure could gather an okay share of the huge number of passengers between the two locations to be profitable.
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Old November 16th, 2014, 04:16 PM   #2788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
For Berlin, the dream would be - if enlightenment ever strikes this continent again and border paranoia is reduced and international train cooperations come back - a high speed sleeper, which I am sure could gather an okay share of the huge number of passengers between the two locations to be profitable.
Wel, border paranoia has in fact reduced significantly across Europe. But we are not yet back to the situation as it existed in th 19th century, where you didn't even need a passport to travel...
But the problem with a night train remains that it is a small niche market requiring specialist stock.
When the channel tunnel was under construction there were plans to run night trains from London to several places on the continent. The trains were even build, but never got to run. Basically a combination of technical problems, plus a business case that never really was convincing got them cancelled even before they started...
Periodically there are plans to revive them. However there are huge obstacles. And there is the fact that the railways still aren't very good at selling their trains. When I commented to some Danish friends here in Switzerland that the night train to Copenhagen would be cancelled next year the reaction was "there is a night train to Copenhagen?"
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Old November 16th, 2014, 05:45 PM   #2789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I think DB still sells on its website those special tickets between London and Berlin for 59/one-way, for courageous people willing to spend 11h on the train, only in one combination of trains per day.
That's how much you need from Ljubljana to Budapest.
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Old November 17th, 2014, 03:25 AM   #2790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
A train, what else? Stopping for 90 min in Lille will never make it more than a niche service.
IIRC they were proposing two return services a day so they aren't expecting that much, however if they can carry 'domestic' european traffic between Brussels and Amsterdam then I can see the extra/longer services proving perfectly viable.

Chris
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Old November 17th, 2014, 02:27 PM   #2791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
All three stations were/are being rebuilt or significantly renovated over last decade, it was a huge mistake not to include segregated set of 2 platforms for international services to/from UK, since both the Channel Tunnel and all plans for high-speed rail links all the way for Amsterdam were there, or under construction, when these stations started their major projects.


There is no way NS or SNCB would spend the money needed for building a
dedicated track, platform, and checing facilities, just for two trains per day.
There is simply no business case.
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Old November 29th, 2014, 11:51 PM   #2792
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From the road forum:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
Geneva and Basel definitely are. There are even cross-border railway
commuter lines, and in the case of Basel, a swiss tram line extending to
France.

In Belgium, Tournai and Mouscron can be seen as a suburb of Lille, with
also rail cross-border traffic for people going there to work. I mention it
because those cross-border trains cannot be subsidized, so they remain in
existence only if they pay for themselves, which somehow demonstrates a
certain volume of traffic.


And then there is Luxemburg, generating a quite sizeable volume of commuter
traffic from very deep in Belgium (I know people commuting to Luxemburg
from Namur daily, although this is quite extreme), enough to support cross-
border commuter trains too, and also to gridlock the motorway between
Arlon and Luxemburg almost every work day.
Under which laws?

International regional trains from Switzerland are subsidized. For instance, Bellinzona-Chiasso-Milano trains are subsidized by each country, each on its own territory, just as their respective parts didn't cross the border (for subsidy and tariff purposes, Chiasso/S10 is considered to be also an Italian station, while on the S30 there is a sort of fictive station between Pino and Ranzo*).

*note that this station is basically meant only for calculating subsidies, you can't buy ticket for it; commuters doing -for instance- Luino-Cadenazzo probably buy a Luino-Pino pass, and a Ranzo-Cadenazzo pass, as they cannot buy a single pass nor buy a pass covering the short Pino-Ranzo section...it is also sometimes impossible to buy international tickets from stations where these trains stops. Things are improving, but still it seems considered normal to have a train where it is forbidden to travel without a ticket, but for which it is also impossible to buy a ticket...
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Old November 30th, 2014, 12:30 PM   #2793
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I do not understand what the point of your discussion is, but local trains crossing Schengenistani borders are quite common and of course they are or can be subsidized. There are for example a handful of trains from Berlin or from places in the state of Brandenburg to Western Poland. While most just cross the border and turn back there, there are some that do longer runs. To my understanding, the exact sum these trains receive are subject to negotiation between the authorities involved, in this case the Berlin-Brandenburg transport authority and the Voyvod of Western Poland.
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Old December 1st, 2014, 10:27 AM   #2794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
From the road forum:
Under which laws?
Specific to Belgium. The subsidy that SNCB receives from the belgian state
explicitely does not cover the cross-border services. SNCB has been told by
the belgian government that if they want to organise cross-border services,
they can but the government won't pay anything for it. It's this situation that
caused the recent closure of the cross border services from Erquelinnes to
Jeumont.

I suspect that this is to some extent prompted by the decisions of the
European Commission. International rail transport is now open to competition
so subsidies could be considered as unfair advantages by the privates
companies (not only trains, but also buses) who do not receive any.
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Old December 1st, 2014, 05:20 PM   #2795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
Specific to Belgium. The subsidy that SNCB receives from the belgian state
explicitely does not cover the cross-border services. SNCB has been told by
the belgian government that if they want to organise cross-border services,
they can but the government won't pay anything for it. It's this situation that
caused the recent closure of the cross border services from Erquelinnes to
Jeumont.

I suspect that this is to some extent prompted by the decisions of the
European Commission. International rail transport is now open to competition
so subsidies could be considered as unfair advantages by the privates
companies (not only trains, but also buses) who do not receive any.
There are no European rules that forbid subsidising cross border trains. Witness the many examples that exist in Europe of regional cross border services that recently have started with subsidies, even sometimes from the EU itself!
However, I suspect that these services indeed then have to be opened to tender, and this could permit foreign companies to get a toehold in Belgium. And protecting the privileges of the NMBS (and more specifically it's unions) is considered more important than providing a good service to the public.
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Old December 1st, 2014, 05:42 PM   #2796
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There is no prohibition on cross-border subsidized transportation services. There are, however, rules that prohibit member states from operating them under de-facto monopolies. If two countries (or more) want to subsidize a transportation service, they should do it via a competitive PSO (public service obligation) tender, which must be opened for qualified interest parts. Conditions of open access should also be present except for local transport.

For instance, Trenitalia and SNCF cannot agree themselves on setting up several new international high speed trains between France and Italy, taking all paths on the Frejus tunnel, with the governments of both countries then granting them monopoly over the routes they serve and crowding out any other interest part. In other words, arrangements similar to those that gave Thalys exclusivity on its route for 2 decades cannot be enacted today.
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Old December 1st, 2014, 07:16 PM   #2797
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From Rail Journal:

Quote:
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=542

Thalys gains French safety certification
Monday, December 01, 2014



THALYS is now authorised to operate passenger services on high-speed and conventional lines in France under its own safety certification after the French Railway Safety Board (EPSF) granted the operator a certificate Part B, which demonstrates the operator complies with national safety provisions

Thalys has already received Part A, a Europe-wide certificate which covers general safety management arrangements.

The certification is part of the reclassification of Thalys as an independent operator, a process which is due to be completed next year
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Old December 11th, 2014, 03:34 PM   #2798
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EUROPE - Gares souterraines

Je suis la recherche d'exemples de gares souterraines plus de 45 m en Europe, si vous avez des liens ou photos je veux bien aussi.

Merci

I'm looking for examples of underground stations at more than 45 m in Europe, if you have links or pictures I want too.

thank you

Last edited by graouette; December 11th, 2014 at 03:44 PM.
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Old December 12th, 2014, 02:55 AM   #2799
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I don't know about any (mainline) railway station located more than 45m underground in Europe. I'm curious if others can find examples.

There were plans to build a station in the Gotthard base tunnel, currently under construction in Switzerland. At 800m Porta Alpina would easly be the deepest station in the world. However, these plans were cancelled (or put on indefinite hold).

There are several metro stations located more than 45m underground though. You'll find pretty much deep statons in metro systems in the former Soviet Union, for especially in Moscow, Kiev or St. Petersburg. For example Admiralteyskaya (86m) or Arsenalna (105m).

London also has stations that are deep underground (the deepest is Hampstead (58m).

Not in Europe, but an underground railway station is currently being built in Jerusalem at a depth of ca 80m.
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Old December 12th, 2014, 10:48 AM   #2800
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I found examples of metro station but not train station.
It doesn't match the level of passenger traffic stations and the number of trains for day
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