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Old February 12th, 2015, 02:39 PM   #2861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post

It's about 500km across the Gulf from Finland to Estonia.

It would be the world's longest undersea tunnel.
Where did you get that number

I think a 70km tunnel will do it.

Turku-Stockholm wouldn't be that difficult. They could build a link hopping over the archipelago on Aland, and then a single tunnel on the strait, no longer than 25km.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 02:55 PM   #2862
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A little less (or more, depending on route) than 50 km, yes. In other words it would be about the same as the Channel Tunnel. Speaking of which.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TedStriker View Post
What makes you say that? Are you thinking that there'll be a fixed link between, say, Turku and Stockholm?

I'm not saying that a rail tunnel between Gedser and Rostock will arise any time soon, but I can't see any reason why a rail tunnel between Sweden and Finland will be built before a rail tunnel between Sweden and Germany.
That these two projects, Trelleborg-Sassnitz and Stockholm-Åland-Turku are about similar technical challenge. They would probably be technically feasible, but someone would really have to want it, and I can't see how they could be profitable, or that they would be built unless there were a revolution in tunnelling. Of the two, at least Stockholm-Turku would be a unique opportunity, while at the time 80 km Trelleborg-Sassnitz would be considered 18 km Fehmarn would be operational and 45 km Gedser-Rostock would be considered as well. Not only would Gedser-Rostock be half the distance of Trelleborg-Sassnitz, it is mostly through easy shallow waters.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 03:06 PM   #2863
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For comparison the longest projected tunnel that may actually be built is the Bohai Strait tunnel. At 123 km it would be 2 1/2 Channel Tunnels.

In that case it has a strong economic incentive, connecting the North-East of China, as well as the Koreas, with the East coast of China.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 03:11 PM   #2864
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How is deep is the Aland Strait?
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Old February 12th, 2015, 03:57 PM   #2865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oslogospelchoir View Post
The Finland toEstonia
Iink is political, a bypass of Russia
No one goes from Helsinki to Tallinn through Russia anyway.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 04:03 PM   #2866
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Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
Not only would Gedser-Rostock be half the distance of Trelleborg-Sassnitz, it is mostly through easy shallow waters.
In case you're wondering, I haven't ever thought that a tunnel between Trelleborg and Sassnitz is in any way desirable.

And with the Rodby-Puttgarden fixed link on the way I think the need for a fixed link between Gedser and Rostock, for example, will be a long way off. But one day it will be built, I'm certain.

I'm confident that in the meantime the train ferry service between Trelleborg and Rostock will survive the opening of the fixed link between Rodby and Puttgarden, but as I have said before, I seriously doubt that the Trelleborg-Sassnitz train ferry will last more than a couple of years.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 05:30 PM   #2867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Where did you get that number

I think a 70km tunnel will do it.

Turku-Stockholm wouldn't be that difficult. They could build a link hopping over the archipelago on Aland, and then a single tunnel on the strait, no longer than 25km.
By ferry to Finland from Stockholm it takes 4 hours through landscapes like these (photo taken by me). They are never going to polute the area with roads...



Besides, I like the ferries to Finland too much...

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Old February 12th, 2015, 07:25 PM   #2868
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Quote:
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By ferry to Finland from Stockholm it takes 4 hours...
It takes 11 hours on the route Turku / Stockholm and almost 18 hours between Stockholm and Helsinki.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 07:37 PM   #2869
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You misunderstood me. It takes 4 hours to get out of the Swedish countryside before hitting open sea. It takes 16 hours to Helsinki, which is what I always take. Next time quote an entire sentence.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 08:04 PM   #2870
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Anyway, I hope nobody ever starts to build anything on the surface to connect Aland islands with the Swedish or Finnish mainland. Any project concerning the rail link between Sweden and Finland via the Aland Strait doesn't seem very clever either. And, while the perspective of linking Finland to Central Europe via the tunnel between Helsinki and Tallinn might be more realistic, it's still a very distant thing.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 09:36 PM   #2871
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Quote:
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And, while the perspective of linking Finland to Central Europe via the tunnel between Helsinki and Tallinn might be more realistic, it's still a very distant thing.
Having in mind that today's longest tunnel under the sea is 38 km, building a 50km long tunnel under the sea is a challenge. The longer the tunnel the higher the risk in case of emergencies like a fire or if an electrical failure occurs.

I have travelled the chunnel by train and I felt a certain discomfort when travelling under water.

I think the Helsinki-Tallinn project is on the same level of possible construction as the planned connections of Gibraltar and the Irish Sea.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 09:48 PM   #2872
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If Helsinki and Tallinn had 10 million inhabitants each this tunnel would already be finished or under construction because technically it is already feasible. Economically however it doesn't make sense so I don't think we'll see built within our lifetimes.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 10:08 PM   #2873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
... I don't think we'll see built within our lifetimes.
I agree that it will be a very long time before this tunnel is built. I certainly cannot see it get anyway near to being built before the entire Rail Baltica route, and I mean the full-twin track version of this route that will offer speeds of no less than 160kph, is complete.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 10:20 PM   #2874
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Quote:
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If Helsinki and Tallinn had 10 million inhabitants each this tunnel would already be finished or under construction because technically it is already feasible. Economically however it doesn't make sense so I don't think we'll see built within our lifetimes.
Oy Oy.

There are some pretty young members on this forum.

Life expectancy is on the rise.

And you never know what curve balls politics is going to through into the scene.

So, yes. I WOULD call it possible within our lifetimes. For at least some of us.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 10:27 PM   #2875
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I'm expecting to be around another 40 years, 50 if I'm luckier than everage so those are my own limits on "lifetime"
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Old February 12th, 2015, 11:21 PM   #2876
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Germany/Austria to Hungary, Italy, Switzerland

ÖBB (Austrian Railways) Railjet to Budapest waiting for departure at Munich Hbf:





Austrian police loc pulling the Railjet at Munich Hbf



ICE service Innsbruck-Berlin at Innsbruck Hbf






DB/ÖBB Munich to Bologna. Up to a few years ago they use to have Trenitalia carriages on this services. Now it's all ÖBB stuff.



ÖBB-Italia loc used for the service between Munich and Italy.



S-Bahn service (Tirol) from Telfs to Rosenheim (Germany). These are local trains and each state in Austria provide their own service, and some are international. The service to Rosenheim is bein run either from Telfs via Innsbruck or Brennero/Brenner (Italy, on the Austrian border)

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Old February 13th, 2015, 12:02 AM   #2877
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I am surprised to hear that a preliminary study concluded that the mythical Tallinn-Helsinki tunnel could become a reality "15 or 20 years from now".

http://yle.fi/uutiset/tallinn-helsin...r_2030/7798307



http://img.yle.fi/uutiset/kotimaa/ar...hteys+11+2.jpg
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Old February 13th, 2015, 01:18 AM   #2878
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What gauge?

Both sides are 5' 0", but the Baltics are trying to go to standard, and there would be pressure for interchangeability.

Dual-gauge, maybe? Regardless, the loading gauge is going to be HUGE.
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Old February 13th, 2015, 01:27 AM   #2879
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
Having in mind that today's longest tunnel under the sea is 38 km, building a 50km long tunnel under the sea is a challenge. The longer the tunnel the higher the risk in case of emergencies like a fire or if an electrical failure occurs.

I have travelled the chunnel by train and I felt a certain discomfort when travelling under water.

I think the Helsinki-Tallinn project is on the same level of possible construction as the planned connections of Gibraltar and the Irish Sea.
Do you get this feeling going through mountains?
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Old February 13th, 2015, 03:23 AM   #2880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
ÖBB-Italia loc used for the service between Munich and Italy.

This loco only runs from Brenner towards Verona. On the Austrian side a class 1116 is used as the 1216s are not equipped with ETCS, which is required for the Austrian section. This is due to the fact that the Italians would demand a re-certification of the 1216 if ETCS is installed. A loco that is already certified...

Moronic...
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