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Old February 22nd, 2015, 03:11 PM   #2921
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I'm sure there is marginal demand for a lot of odd services. The question is, for instance: are there enough passengers willing to board an early morning train in London arriving late in the evening in Malaga? Or departing Roma 9.00 to arrive in London 22.00...
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 04:08 PM   #2922
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Who said anything about Malaga or Rome? I suspect a London-Barcelona route would about as long a service a day operator like Eurostar would offer, although I can't see anything happening this decade. I doubt it would begin as a direct service too.
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 04:24 PM   #2923
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Rome to London?

More than enough.

Both cities are HUGE destinations. More than enough to warrant through-service.
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 04:27 PM   #2924
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If you can fly for the same price or cheaper and you can get there a lot quicker, then what is the point? Paris, Brussels and Amsterdam are fine because by the time you get to the airport, checked in, went through security and gone through all that nonsense again at the other end you would have beaten that time on the train from city centre to city centre anyway.
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 04:41 PM   #2925
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Quote:
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If you can fly for the same price or cheaper and you can get there a lot quicker, then what is the point? Paris, Brussels and Amsterdam are fine because by the time you get to the airport, checked in, went through security and gone through all that nonsense again at the other end you would have beaten that time on the train from city centre to city centre anyway.
There is far more stress and discomfort involved in flying. Quite a few people will opt for the more relaxing trip by train, and many people find the internet access a big plus.
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 04:44 PM   #2926
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Whatever.
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 04:49 PM   #2927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
Rome to London?

More than enough.

Both cities are HUGE destinations. More than enough to warrant through-service.
Today, the fastest possible services connecting the capitals of UK and Italy would be:

+1h18 => London St. Pancras-Lille Europe
+2h55 => Lille Europe-Lyon
+3h26 => Lyon-Torino P. Susa
+3h37 => Torino P. Susa-Roma Tiburtina
___________
= 11h16min

This assumes tracks and speeds as currently available, without any completion of further works. If you start adding other stops other than the ones mentioned above, this increases travel time...

Do you think people would pack at least a full HST on this route every day?
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 04:56 PM   #2928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
If you can fly for the same price or cheaper and you can get there a lot quicker, then what is the point? Paris, Brussels and Amsterdam are fine because by the time you get to the airport, checked in, went through security and gone through all that nonsense again at the other end you would have beaten that time on the train from city centre to city centre anyway.
It's a marginal service, but the posters above were right that it could still be enough people to fill a train or two every day.

I personally use a diversified system of travel. I take a the train or rent a car or fly whichever is more convenient. I do try to avoid long range buses if at all possible, though.
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 05:10 PM   #2929
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I do try to avoid long range buses if at all possible, though.
Even this is growing. As a recently as 2011 there was just 1 operator providing bus services on the London-Paris route - now there are 3.
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 05:31 PM   #2930
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Even this is growing. As a recently as 2011 there was just 1 operator providing bus services on the London-Paris route - now there are 3.
But how many daily bus departures are there on this route? Unless you have a bus departing every 15 minutes, their relevance on the overall London-Paris market is minimal.

Of course buses have some niche appeal. Apparently, intercity buses are all the rage among backpackers or international college students traveling at last-moment in summer.
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 05:46 PM   #2931
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It's by far the cheapest way to get from London to Paris. Of course neither the fastest nor most convenient.
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 05:52 PM   #2932
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This is the one. They always got a Spaniosh registered coach on this London to Paris route.
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 06:26 PM   #2933
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What's the travel time?

And how many people use this? If there were enough demand, maybe they could run a local train London-Paris on regular tracks?
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 06:50 PM   #2934
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What's the travel time?

And how many people use this? If there were enough demand, maybe they could run a local train London-Paris on regular tracks?
Quick search shows between 8.5 and 9.5 hours. Even a local train through the tunnel would never be that slow, but it would also never beat the bus on price. You could travel for 25 euros one way tomorrow. No wonder it's popular among students.
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 09:43 PM   #2935
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And how many people use this? If there were enough demand, maybe they could run a local train London-Paris on regular tracks?
This would be expensive, because such a train would have to be an specially adapted engine able to run at 750 DC with third rail.
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 11:01 PM   #2936
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There have been plenty of talks about cross-channel commuter services under the name of "Transmanche Metro" (TMM). The idea is to provide commuter services between Calais, Ashford/Stratford and other intermediate towns.

However, talks go back as far as 2010 while still no TMM has seen the ligt of day.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 12:21 AM   #2937
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This would be expensive, because such a train would have to be an specially adapted engine able to run at 750 DC with third rail.
The US has been building such stock since 1905 with no problems. Britain does it too for Thameslink. Why would it be so difficult?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
There have been plenty of talks about cross-channel commuter services under the name of "Transmanche Metro" (TMM). The idea is to provide commuter services between Calais, Ashford/Stratford and other intermediate towns.

However, talks go back as far as 2010 while still no TMM has seen the ligt of day.
(le sigh)

Any idea what the rolling stock would look like?
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 01:09 AM   #2938
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I think the talks have never advanced far enough to even think about rolling stock. Channel Tunnel safety regulations would probably require 400m+ trains, which is absurdly long for commuter services. Commuter would be better off with shorter trains that run more frequently - once every 20 or 30 minutes would be better than once every 60.

Then there's the case of the British immigration services. Requiring daily check-ins (as for Eurostar) is killing for a commuter service as it would needlessly add an hour of journey time, every single day. A "frequent flyer"-like programme (where passengers can automatically identify themselves using an iris scan or something similar) could help with this, but only if it lets regulars enter the platform up to at least 2 minutes before planned departure.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 02:54 AM   #2939
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Don't the Chunnel regs just mean that it has to be able to split in half?

And I would expect the TMM to start after Britain went into Schengen.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 03:07 AM   #2940
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I thinking that while France has built lines that enable now a lot of very long-distance international trains, Switzerland is set to become the dark hole of international travel in Western Europe, where average commercial speed is going to plummet if trains need to travel through, to or from Switzerland.
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