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Old February 23rd, 2015, 03:14 AM   #2941
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AlpTransit is supposed to help with that, allowing some pretty fast running across some the worst of the terrain.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 03:29 AM   #2942
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Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
AlpTransit is supposed to help with that, allowing some pretty fast running across some the worst of the terrain.
AlpTransit will help, but there is a larger problem about lack of track capacity north of the Alps. It is very hard to find paths for, say, an express train coming from Germany and calling only at Bern or Luzern and then Milano (which would somehow resemble French services like Lille-Lyon).

Actually, I read that if an open-access operator wanted to run a Frankfurt-Milano train, for instance, its options would be:

- make the train follow a shadow path of some IC train, even if it doesn't want to stop at all stations domestic SBB IC's call at, which increases travel time.

- pay an access fee so high to get special paths that it would render the train service non-economical.

- enter some arrangement whereas such train would be part of SBB netwok within Switzerland.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 09:36 AM   #2943
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Concerning these border procedures, one thing is incomprehensible to me. Even travelling between EU Finland and Putin's Russia the passport control is nowadays performed entirely on board of trains.

So, why is it possible between more and more hostile countries, but not so within the "friendly" European Union?
Because the goals are different.

Controls at the entrance of the Channel tunnel have two main objectives :

- Prevent a terrorost attack (bombing) while in the tunnel
- Prevent illegal immigration

Both objectives require to perform the controls before entering the tunnel.
Travel time between Lille and Calais is not sufficient for this.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 08:21 PM   #2944
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Don't the Chunnel regs just mean that it has to be able to split in half?
It also has to do with aligning with the emergency crossovers that were built every 375 meters. By having 400m trains, you know for sure that one door will always be near a crossover (no more than a 20 meters walk from the door). By doing this passengers can remain inside the train as they walk to the crossover, should there be a serious incident such as a fire.

If you'd run a service with a 70 meter EMU, the odds are that the nearest emergency crossover is located 170 meters away from the front of the vehicle. This would mean a 170 meter walk through smoke. As we've seen in the Kaprun disaster, this can be quite a challenge.

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And I would expect the TMM to start after Britain went into Schengen.
And when do you expect that to happen, precisely?
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 09:37 PM   #2945
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Not alone, but still a bit outside mainstream. Are you perhaps afraid of flying?
I love flying. Especially when I'm doing the flying.

But what commercial flying has become makes me angry. There are thousands of people now being paid solely to make the world a worse place. When people think that railways should introduce this as well I get ready for murder (figuratively speaking).

I'm not the least bit afraid from flying. I just find that the train is less nerve wracking. It's also allows me to better organize my day, provided there is a frequent schedule. When I visit my relatives I want to be there before dinner. The day is going to be dominated by travel anyway. It doesn't really matter that much if the travel takes 6 or 8 hours, as long as it's pleasant.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 09:42 PM   #2946
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I'm sure there is marginal demand for a lot of odd services. The question is, for instance: are there enough passengers willing to board an early morning train in London arriving late in the evening in Malaga? Or departing Roma 9.00 to arrive in London 22.00...
There is not enough demand to fill a whole train. But here the beauty of a train shows: you don't need to fill a train completely with people going all the way. A train can serve a whole lot of markets at the same time.
A London Barcelona train would serve a lot of intermediate places as well. But as long as the security theatre is insisted upon such a train is indeed dead in the water.

There is a train from Interlaken to Berlin, at two hours interval. It doesn't just serve Interlaken - Berlin travelers. Far from...
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 09:44 PM   #2947
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This would be expensive, because such a train would have to be an specially adapted engine able to run at 750 DC with third rail.
Such a train already exists. Euro stars ran using 750v third rail during the first years of service, before HSL1 opened.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 09:48 PM   #2948
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Because the goals are different. Controls at the entrance of the Channel tunnel have two main objectives : - Prevent a terrorost attack (bombing) while in the tunnel - Prevent illegal immigration Both objectives require to perform the controls before entering the tunnel. Travel time between Lille and Calais is not sufficient for this.
No it's not about preventing terrorism. (Neither are the checks at the airports). Its pure ass covering by officials.

Hou don't stop terrorism by forcing terroriste to change their tactics. The whole security theatre at the Eurostar is superfluous.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 09:59 PM   #2949
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I thinking that while France has built lines that enable now a lot of very long-distance international trains, Switzerland is set to become the dark hole of international travel in Western Europe, where average commercial speed is going to plummet if trains need to travel through, to or from Switzerland.
How many dedicated high speed lines has France build through the Alps? How many has Italy?

None.

Despite the difficult geography the average commercial speed of public transport is high in Switzerland then in Italy of France once you leave the high speed lines.

The train from Basel to Milano has the lowest average speed on it's Italian section. Once it has left the mountains...

That is the reality.
It's not the SBB that is slowing trains to Milano down, it's Trenitalia.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 10:03 PM   #2950
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Actually, I read that if an open-access operator wanted to run a Frankfurt-Milano train, for instance, its options would be:

- make the train follow a shadow path of some IC train, even if it doesn't want to stop at all stations domestic SBB IC's call at, which increases travel time.

- pay an access fee so high to get special paths that it would render the train service non-economical.

- enter some arrangement whereas such train would be part of SBB netwok within Switzerland.
Without many intermediate stops such a service would never be economically viable to begin with. Trains function best as part of a network. Stops add time to a train, but they also add value. They increase the number of destinations a train is useful for.
The main market for a train from Frankfurt to Milano would not be people going from Frankfurt to Milano, but people going to Frankfurt of Milano from places in between.

The value of a train service is in the number of destinations it allows you to reach within your time budget. Speed is important, but is not the only thing that matters.
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Old February 24th, 2015, 01:26 AM   #2951
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I love flying. Especially when I'm doing the flying.

But what commercial flying has become makes me angry. There are thousands of people now being paid solely to make the world a worse place. When people think that railways should introduce this as well I get ready for murder (figuratively speaking).

I'm not the least bit afraid from flying. I just find that the train is less nerve wracking. It's also allows me to better organize my day, provided there is a frequent schedule. When I visit my relatives I want to be there before dinner. The day is going to be dominated by travel anyway. It doesn't really matter that much if the travel takes 6 or 8 hours, as long as it's pleasant.
You no doubt mean all that security theatre. It's not fun at all I agree with you, albeit not extra terrible in Switzerland. I just don't think too much about it because there are too many occasions when nothing else would get me to the desired location in a reasonable time or at all.
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Old February 24th, 2015, 01:29 AM   #2952
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There is a train from Interlaken to Berlin, at two hours interval. It doesn't just serve Interlaken - Berlin travelers. Far from...
Yes, although there is a downside too on using long distance trains for local traffic. These trains are late a lot more often than regular Swiss trains even considering that they are not on tight schedule. Sometimes they even have to be replace with extra trains.
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Old February 24th, 2015, 07:22 AM   #2953
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A rare double trainset High Speed meet

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Old February 25th, 2015, 04:06 AM   #2954
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AVE/TGV France-Spain services.

Passengers on the Perpignan-Barcelona route are quite angry at the ticket prices.

They have created this Facebook page (in French) to complain about it, and also about the bad timetables, which don't suit them, forcing them to travel by car to Figueres-Vilafant station (if they have to travel to anywhere beyond Barcelona)... or to drive all the way down to Barcelona, since car-sharing is less expensive in their case than travelling by train to Barcelona.

Besides, a Perpignan-Barcelona ticket will cost €37.10 from April, while a Narbonne-Barcelona ticket (which is a longer distance), will cost only €36.00.

Why is that?
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Old February 25th, 2015, 06:13 AM   #2955
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Passengers on the Perpignan-Barcelona route are quite angry at the ticket prices.

They have created this Facebook page (in French) to complain about it, and also about the bad timetables, which don't suit them, forcing them to travel by car to Figueres-Vilafant station (if they have to travel to anywhere beyond Barcelona)... or to drive all the way down to Barcelona, since car-sharing is less expensive in their case than travelling by train to Barcelona.

Besides, a Perpignan-Barcelona ticket will cost €37.10 from April, while a Narbonne-Barcelona ticket (which is a longer distance), will cost only €36.00.

Why is that?
Because RENFE and SNCF are incompetent/not interested. SNCF considers the train as something that only people traveling to/from Paris take. RENFE doesn't seem to be able to understand that the same service can serve both local and long distance markets.

Ideally there should be an hourly service between Barcelona and Perpignan. That way you could develop a market for cross border traffic. That you build a high speed railway and then run so few trains over it is mind boggling.

How I would design a timetable for this line:

- At least every two hour a TGV from Barcelona to Perpignan and points north. Some trains would go to Toulouse/Bordeaux, others to Paris, others to Marseilles, and at least one to Geneva. For trains that turn "west" in Narbonne there is a good connection with a train going East, and vice versa (and if this is done right the same trains also serve as offering good connections on the Nimes . Narbonne - Bordeaux axis).
- On the other hours extend the current Alvia services to Perignan.
- On Barcelona - Perpignan (and beyond) TGV services offer tickets at ALVIA prices- Make it easy for people to exchange tickets when they decide they want to stay it bit longer at either end. Reserve two (or more, depending on demand) cars in the TGV for local traffic.

This would probably not be very profitable in the first years, but it would build a market for day trips, shopping etc. It would make cross border commuting more attractive. I'm sure you could even get a EU subsidy for the first years...
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Old February 25th, 2015, 03:40 PM   #2956
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I'd like to go to Dortmund from Torino (Italy) by train going tuesday , staying wednesday and coming back a Thursday.
Anyone have any suggestion or site where i can see this through?
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Old February 25th, 2015, 04:09 PM   #2957
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The DB website? I reckon the most direct, fewest train change daytime routings are either via Paris or Milano/Basel.
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Old February 25th, 2015, 06:34 PM   #2958
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I'd like to go to Dortmund from Torino (Italy) by train going tuesday , staying wednesday and coming back a Thursday.
Anyone have any suggestion or site where i can see this through?
I suggest you the Sparpreisfinder of Deutsche Bahn. There you'll find some bargains at least from Milano to Dortmund. To get to Milano and back home again you still need lefrecce.it I'm afraid.

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The DB website? I reckon the most direct, fewest train change daytime routings are either via Paris or Milano/Basel.
Paris is not exactly direct nor fast in this case. There alone she had to change twice. The route via Milano and Bern looks a whole lot better.
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Old February 26th, 2015, 03:17 PM   #2959
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From Rail Journal:

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http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=537

France and Italy sign Lyon – Turin accord
Thursday, February 26, 2015



FRENCH president Mr François Hollande, French secretary of state for transport Mr Alain Vidalies and Italian infrastructure and transport minister Mr Maurizio Lupi signed an agreement to go ahead with a new €26bn railway linking Lyon and Turin during an international summit in Paris on February 24

"We can now say the Lyon – Turin railway is not just in the pipeline, but has been launched," Hollande says. "It will take time to come to fruition but there are, as of today, no brakes on the project and no obstacles lying in the way of its completion."

This agreement follows the approval of the project by the Italian Interministerial Committee for Economic Planning (CIPE) on February 20, paving the way for an application for TEN-T funding from the European Union (EU). The French and Italian governments hope to secure up to 40% of the funding required for the project from EU sources

...
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Old February 26th, 2015, 04:53 PM   #2960
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I'd like to go to Dortmund from Torino (Italy) by train going tuesday , staying wednesday and coming back a Thursday.
Anyone have any suggestion or site where i can see this through?
It really depends on what you expect from the ride most, comfort, good prices, or speed.

I checked the DB website and the fastest connections are 11 hrs 20 min if you start in the morning at 6 or 10.00. via Switzerland with a few changes. Tight changes are usually not a problem in Switzerland. In Germany, they can be but if they do not work out you have the right to board the next train and demand part of your money back (with some minimal paperwork).

Some people might prefer traveling a long route like this in a night train with couchette or sleeper options. The only night train that could help you for part of the way is the Basel-Amsterdam train, which stops in Duisburg, from where there are many local trains to Dortmund that do not take long.

Prices do not show for your connection on the DB website, but they should show for any connection between a Swiss city and Germany and possibly Milano-Germany. Try around with German and Italian rail websites (Swiss is not very helpful as far as I remember). See also seat61.com on how to use DB website or Trenitalia and get a good deal out of them.
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