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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:32 AM   #3121
Gusiluz
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Comparison of HS services worldwide 2007/2012

Data calculated based on the report: Performance and efficiency of high-speed rail systems of Jack E. Doomernik. Lloyd's Register and University of Antwerp

First of comparative Use:


Do not confuse with the occupation (passengers / seats); when the % is very high, as the Sapsan (84.5%), usually it is the latter: in a train of 100 seats were occupied 84.5 at some point along the route, even a very short drive. In this case the Use is roughly between 50 and 65%.

You can see that the best data are CRH (with many ups and downs due to the halt in construction of HSL by corruption scandals of former minister, who was sentenced to death) followed, although I have the 2012, Eurostar, TGV, KTX, Shinkansen and Spanish LD (includes AVE). These reached 61.26% in 2013 and 63.41% in 2014, so we are KTX-level and above the TGV.
I have only data Eurostar 2010 (65%), will now be better (hardly make stops, the thickness is London-Paris or Brussels). NTV began in 2012 (data from your own site: 51%), 6 points higher than its public competitor.

Now average km per passenger:


You can check that services whose passengers travel more km are TGV and the Spanish LD (remember that are total runs, counting HSL and Conventional), with 50% more than their pursuers: ICE and Frecce (which has reduced its route average from 393 to 309 km, 21.4% in 5 years). China continues to rise and then are KTX (almost covering the Shinkansen), both very stable, followed by NTV (within a range 24% lower than its public competitor Frecce) and THSR, punishable by a maximum travel of 338 km between Taipei and Kaohsiung.

Now we will see that there are trains with a different size:


You can see the huge difference in size between Asian and European trains, especially the Spaniards, who are 69% smaller; and that these have been in six years, from 276 to 325 seats, 2013 (not in picture), an increase of 18% in its average capacity.

THSR 700T tops the list of places Taiwan 989, on par with the average of the Shinkansen (between 338 and 1,324 seats), followed by Eurostar, the KTX, which began with the 935 seats of the KTX I (TGV-RÚseau derivatives) and they dropped 363 of the KTX II (HSR 350X Hyundai Rotem) and CRH (between 494 and 1,299 seats).
In Europe (excluding Eurostar) the larger the Frecce (between 402 and 656 seats); They are also the least exploited, maybe that's why the new ETR 1000 have 457 seats. They are tied NTV (460), TGV (between 345 and 634 seats) and ICE (between 195 and 649 seats).
Apart from the study are Russian Sapsan (604 seats), the Moroccan Duplex Maroc (533 seats in 2018), the Turks (the Velaro TR 500 and 409 of the ATPRD CAF), the Saudi Haramain (417 squares, 2016) and American Acela (304 seats).
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Old September 18th, 2015, 03:33 PM   #3122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post
You can see that the best data are CRH (with many ups and downs due to the halt in construction of HSL by corruption scandals of former minister, who was sentenced to death) followed, although I have the 2012, Eurostar, TGV, KTX, Shinkansen and Spanish LD (includes AVE). These reached 61.26% in 2013 and 63.41% in 2014, so we are KTX-level and above the TGV.
I have only data Eurostar 2010 (65%), will now be better (hardly make stops, the thickness is London-Paris or Brussels). NTV began in 2012 (data from your own site: 51%), 6 points higher than its public competitor.
Higher average occupation% is not always better. From the point of view of the passenger lower occupation is actually better. Some railways also can turn a profit at a lower occupancy % because they are more efficient.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 09:09 PM   #3123
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Old September 21st, 2015, 05:46 PM   #3124
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From the point of view of the passenger lower occupation is actually better.
That is a fairly short-sighted view. Train-operating companies adjust their service level and the size of the deployed vehicles to the number of passengers. It is therefore in the interest of each traveller that trains are filled to keep up the existing service level or to get even additional services.
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Old September 22nd, 2015, 08:15 AM   #3125
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That is a fairly short-sighted view. Train-operating companies adjust their service level and the size of the deployed vehicles to the number of passengers. It is therefore in the interest of each traveller that trains are filled to keep up the existing service level or to get even additional services.
However a company that can turn a profit with an average occupancy level of 30% will start adding services if average loading is above 30%, whereas another company will only do this once loadings go above 60%. Which is the better from the point of view of the passengers?
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Old September 22nd, 2015, 08:36 PM   #3126
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I doubt that. Such a company will happily take 60% loading and do nothing. Why bother if money is coming to you for free?
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Old September 23rd, 2015, 07:10 AM   #3127
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I doubt that. Such a company will happily take 60% loading and do nothing. Why bother if money is coming to you for free?
Because a company like that makes more money when they run 20 trains with 40% average loading than 10 trains with 60% average loading.

Trains are expensive. Letting them sit idle in the yards costs money too.
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Old September 23rd, 2015, 07:21 PM   #3128
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Because a company like that makes more money when they run 20 trains with 40% average loading than 10 trains with 60% average loading.
But it's not like that usually. The company only has 20 trains, runs all of them at 40% average loading. If the demand increases by 15% they'll be very happy about it, but they won't invest in buying new trains just yet.

I work in a chemical company and we try to squeeze all possible capacity out of existing assets before we even consider investing large amounts of money to acquire more. A new factory building takes a long time to pay off. I don't think the situation is radically different for a railway company.
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Old September 23rd, 2015, 07:55 PM   #3129
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You are right. It takes ages to procure new rolling stock, a short-term demand increase (which later declines) does not justify the money and time involved to get the new trains running.

In the most optimistic situation, it take about a year before a newly ordered train or locomotive can run in commercial service. However, this requires that the train has alreayd been homologated (approved for commercial service), that staff has been trained and preferably that there is still an option available with the manufacturer.

If it concerns new trains, the order can take somewhere between 2 to 5 years depending on vehicle type (new design or existing, approved or not), ownership structure (small private company vs government owned) and if there's a requirement to put it out to tender or not.
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Old September 24th, 2015, 11:50 AM   #3130
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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
But it's not like that usually. The company only has 20 trains, runs all of them at 40% average loading. If the demand increases by 15% they'll be very happy about it, but they won't invest in buying new trains just yet.
DB or SBB indeed not, as they have their trains in motion as much as possible.
But for example SNCF or RENFE have large numbers sitting idle for large parts of the day, because the marginal cost for an extra train is higher for them.
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Old September 25th, 2015, 03:32 PM   #3131
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Quote:
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DB or SBB indeed not, as they have their trains in motion as much as possible.
But for example SNCF or RENFE have large numbers sitting idle for large parts of the day, because the marginal cost for an extra train is higher for them.
I think that has more to do with the historical procurement and operating philosophy of SNCF (I'm not so sure about RENFE), where long-distance rolling stock is diagrammed very slackly. There are usually TGVs to be found sitting around spare at various depots around the country during the daytime, and many of the station turnround times are very generous. Compare and contrast with the intensive utilization of (say) the UK Pendolino fleet (also manufactured and maintained by Alstom). I don't think it has anything to do with different marginal costs.
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Old September 25th, 2015, 10:36 PM   #3132
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I think that has more to do with the historical procurement and operating philosophy of SNCF
I think the operating philosophy of SNCF is to just drive trains around at random hours.
How is it that they border Germany, Switzerland, and Belgium all running clockface timetables successfully and they still think having 3 trains in 10 minutes and none for the following 6 hours is a proper timetable?
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Old September 26th, 2015, 03:02 PM   #3133
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A planned train connection between Oulu and Luleň.

The municipality of Luleň and the train operator Norrtňg Ab are up to start passenger traffic from Luleň, Sweden to Oulu, Finland.

"The Journey would take about 3 hours, when the Bothnia High-speed rail link is completed between Luleň and Haparanda," says Luleň council Coalition Group CEO Anders Josefsson.

The passenger trains could run at speeds of more than 200 km/h
on the Botnia-rail link

Background: The last train to Haparanda was canceled in 1992.

The high-speed rail link would facilitate the movement of workers and students in the common economic region of the Bothnia Arc.

It consists of seven municipalities in Sweden and four Finnish sub-regions, which will improve cooperation. The new train service is not related to the refugee crisis.

"I think the two major growth centers of Oulu and Luleň can create opportunities for passenger traffic between them, we have had discussions with the finnish railways VR, because we can not operate in Finland," says Olle Tiderman the technical director of Norrtňg.

Norrtňg is to resume the passenger traffic to Haparanda in the next year. However, the obstacle of the Luleň-Oulu rail traffic is the electrification on the Laurila and Tornio section of the line which would cost an estimated ten million euro.", Says VR's Corporate Relations Director Otto Hardwood.

Previously, between Oulu and Luleň there has been testing of EU-funded bus connections, but it was discontinued as unprofitable.

The Finns are hoping for cooperation in the Upper Gulf of Bothnia in order to improve the conditions of youth unemployment.

The youth unemployment has risen on the finnish side of the Bothnian Arc. On the swedish side it has decreased. Last year, the unemployment rate for young people on the swedish side was only 4 % says Bothnian Arc Association President and CEO Heikki Aalto. The association was founded in 2002.

According to the mayor of Luleň Anne Karlenoiuksen, it's Sweden's fastest growing municipality.

Luleň has 75 000 inhabitants and Facebook has opened a new data server here, the first one outside the United States.

This has attracted several companies to Luleň in addition to the traditional heavy metal industry.


"The project will cost around EUR 300 million.

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Old October 7th, 2015, 09:53 AM   #3134
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A question regarding CIV / Railteam "hop on the next train" promise on delays...

Passenger 1 is heading to Paris from London by Eurostar.

Passenger 2 is heading to Paris from Holland by Thalys.

Passengers 1 & 2 are then heading south from Paris by TGV on a joint booking with the same PNR code.


What happens if one of the passengers is delayed and will miss the connection?

Does the other unaffected passenger have to take the original booking or are both entitled to be re-booked on a later service?

If it is the last train of the day to the end destination, are one or both entitled to travel as far as possible to an intermediate location and get a hotel before continuing the journey? What if that subsequent option is via another country and involves another operator?


Any insight much appreciated...
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Old October 7th, 2015, 10:19 AM   #3135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
The municipality of Luleň and the train operator Norrtňg Ab are up to start passenger traffic from Luleň, Sweden to Oulu, Finland.

"The Journey would take about 3 hours, when the Bothnia High-speed rail link is completed between Luleň and Haparanda," says Luleň council Coalition Group CEO Anders Josefsson.

The passenger trains could run at speeds of more than 200 km/h
on the Botnia-rail link
On which gauge?
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Old October 7th, 2015, 10:44 AM   #3136
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Dear 33 Hz, why don't you ask RailTeam? This is really a bit too particular and complicated that you can expect people to have made this experience before.
As you probably know, Amsterdam trains will be more prone to delays than Eurostar, so maybe that person should make sure to travel with some breathing space, especially if you have to change stations in Paris.
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Old October 7th, 2015, 11:23 AM   #3137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33Hz View Post
A question regarding CIV / Railteam "hop on the next train" promise on delays...

Passenger 1 is heading to Paris from London by Eurostar.

Passenger 2 is heading to Paris from Holland by Thalys.

Passengers 1 & 2 are then heading south from Paris by TGV on a joint booking with the same PNR code.


What happens if one of the passengers is delayed and will miss the connection?
I think that in this case the three tickets will be considered as three different trips.
A while ago I travelled Basel - Brussel by TGV and Thalys. I had two tickets, and these tickets shared the same booking nr. (I had bought them together). My train to Paris was late, and in Paris Nord I went to the Thalys booth and they validated my ticket for the next Thalys departure.

I think you should in this case have made two bookings, one London - South of France, and one Holland - South of France in stead of three bookings.
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Old October 7th, 2015, 11:44 AM   #3138
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I've had late trains before and had the ticket inspector stamp the ticket which was accepted on the next service (in one case the next day). This is just normal for Railteam and mimics your situation.

With Railteam, it doesn't matter if you book the whole through trip through seperate sources with different PNR codes (trip references). I often buy a Eurostar ticket from them directly and then the second leg from NS International or Captain Train or whoever, because they can get me to an end destination that Eurostar can't. That's never been a problem with late trains.

In my specific case above, passengers 1 and 2 have to travel together on the second leg. If I had booked them as completely separate trips, then they definitely would be travelling on different trains if one was delayed on the inbound to Paris. But as I have booked already, I would like confirmation from someone in the know as to what my rights are if the worst happens.
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Old October 16th, 2015, 06:35 PM   #3139
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From Railway Gazette:

Quote:
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/i...augurated.html

First section of Rail Baltica inaugurated
16 Oct 2015







EUROPE: Lithuanian Prime Minister Algirdas Butkevičius and European Commissioner for Transport Violeta Bulc inaugurated the first completed section of the Rail Baltica standard gauge line with a ceremony at Kaunas station on October 16.

Rail Baltica envisages the construction of a 1 435 mm gauge corridor linking Poland with Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, and potentially Finland via a 60 km tunnel.

The first section to be completed is a 1 435 mm gauge line from the Polish border to Kaunas, which has been built alongside the existing 1520 mm gauge line from the former break of gauge at ŐeÜtokai which has also been upgraded. The project is designated Rail Baltica I, with Rail Baltica II referring to the proposed 728 km double-track electrified line on a new alignment from Kaunas to Tallinn which is estimated to cost Ç3Ě68bn

...
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Old October 16th, 2015, 09:43 PM   #3140
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First section of Rail Baltica inaugurated
...with no passenger trains coming, apparently. Not now, not a single connection scheduled in the next timetable either. Am I wrong?
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