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Old January 20th, 2016, 07:51 PM   #3201
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Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
You make it sound like HS trains could not shift onto conventional rail. They do, all the time, both in France and Italy. TGV from Paris to Milan already exist. At 7 hrs, they can definitely need some additional HS routes to minimize traveling time, but one of the most avoidable hindrances to better traveling times is that TGVs are not allowed onto the HS grid in Italy and thus take an hour longer than an Italian ES (could therefore do Paris-Milan in 6, what could make a big difference to interested travelers). Do not get me wrong, I am not against the tunnel, but what use are the billions for such a project if simple technical problems of interoperability are not addressed too?
I will put it the other way round. Maybe the reason they haven't solve those interoperability problems so far is because without such a link it doesn't make much sense to do it, as long as the high speed trains are not able to offer actual high speed services competitive to other transportation means.

If they manage to built such a link under the Alps, they will very easily solve such a problems.
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Old January 20th, 2016, 08:16 PM   #3202
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The Lotschberg base tunnel, Gotthard base tunnel and in the future the Brenner base tunnel will be faster and shorter to every place from Italy to Germany. The relevance of this tunnel for the traffic between these countries is next to none.
Yes and it is an issue for what reason? This tunnel will be important for connections between France, Spain and UK with Italy. For far away destinations mostly freight, for closer also HS passenger.
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Old January 20th, 2016, 09:42 PM   #3203
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This will indeed be an very important tunnel for connecting Italy to countries west of it, but clickgr was stating that this tunnel would connect Italy to Germany. I just said that I don't think this is true, because it will be perpendicular seen from Germany. Maybe for services from Munich but I think crossing the alps twice isn't the best way to get to southern france.
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Old January 20th, 2016, 09:54 PM   #3204
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This will indeed be an very important tunnel for connecting Italy to countries west of it, but clickgr was stating that this tunnel would connect Italy to Germany. I just said that I don't think this is true, because it will be perpendicular seen from Germany. Maybe for services from Munich but I think crossing the alps twice isn't the best way to get to southern france.
Germany is a big country. Maybe for Munich or Berlin this link does not have any use, but for other areas on the west side of the country like Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Rhine-Ruhr etc. via Lyon and Basel can be useful, especially if there is no other high speed connection through Switzerland or Austria.
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Old January 20th, 2016, 09:58 PM   #3205
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Germany is a big country. Maybe for Munich or Berlin this link does not have any use, but for other areas on the west side of the country like Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Rhine-Ruhr etc. via Lyon and Basel can be useful, especially if there is no other high speed connection through Switzerland or Austria.
Gotthard tunnel opens at the end of this year and Ceneri will follow few years later. Not a true high speed route, but nevertheless due to much shorter distance Frankfurt-Freiburg-Basel-Gotthard-Milan route will be faster.
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Old January 20th, 2016, 10:52 PM   #3206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clickgr View Post
Germany is a big country. Maybe for Munich or Berlin this link does not have any use, but for other areas on the west side of the country like Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Rhine-Ruhr etc. via Lyon and Basel can be useful, especially if there is no other high speed connection through Switzerland or Austria.
Absolutely ridiculous. Why do you not look at a map or a rail schedule before making such claims? Today a direct train Basel-Milano takes 4 hrs. By comparison, the same trip via Lyon takes 8 hrs. No tunnel in the world can make that much difference.
The Gotthard Tunnel does not really help trains coming from Frankfurt-Basel, only those from Zurich and Stuttgart, but the other trains will benefit from the mentioned improvements in Switzerland. HSR is good, but it does not perform miracles.
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Old January 20th, 2016, 11:01 PM   #3207
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And maybe you don't know but the Frejus base tunnel route will be 220 kmh but Gotthard base tunnel and Brenner base tunnel will be 250 and lotschberg to a certain extend. It will not be in anyone be convenient to go via the Frejus route, just except it. Swiss and Austrian routes will always be faster to go to Italy. basta
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Old January 20th, 2016, 11:23 PM   #3208
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The Gotthard Tunnel does not really help trains coming from Frankfurt-Basel, only those from Zurich and Stuttgart, but the other trains will benefit from the mentioned improvements in Switzerland. HSR is good, but it does not perform miracles.
It doesn't help as much, but it should still be a bit faster. Right now Basel-Milan goes via Simplon pass and Domodossola, but I think with the new tunnel Gotthard route should be at least half an hour better.
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Old January 21st, 2016, 09:10 AM   #3209
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Paris-Milan TGVs don't use Turin-Milan HSL because they are old, and SNCF thinks it isn't worth to equip them with ETCS as they might have to be replaced in 10-15 years and as even via the HSL the travel time will too long anyway (6 hours or so).

If there was an HSL all the way from (a junction on the HSL near) Lyon to Turin, the Fréjus route should be faster for Benelux-Turin-Milan trains. However there will not be anytime soon (only the Fréjus base tunnel is planned now), so for any trip longer than Paris-Milan (or even Paris-Turin) the airplanes (but probably also a train via Switzerland/Austria) will still be faster. However, on the routes via Switzerland there are more capacity issues that limits speed.
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Old January 21st, 2016, 11:07 AM   #3210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
Absolutely ridiculous. Why do you not look at a map or a rail schedule before making such claims? Today a direct train Basel-Milano takes 4 hrs. By comparison, the same trip via Lyon takes 8 hrs. No tunnel in the world can make that much difference.
The Gotthard Tunnel does not really help trains coming from Frankfurt-Basel, only those from Zurich and Stuttgart, but the other trains will benefit from the mentioned improvements in Switzerland. HSR is good, but it does not perform miracles.
Milano isn't the only place in Italy. Due to the faster approaches it is not inconceivable that the Frejus route will be at least as fast as the Gotthard route for travels from Frankfurt/M to Torino and other places in northwestern Italy.

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Originally Posted by Bobo90 View Post
And maybe you don't know but the Frejus base tunnel route will be 220 kmh but Gotthard base tunnel and Brenner base tunnel will be 250 and lotschberg to a certain extend. It will not be in anyone be convenient to go via the Frejus route, just except it. Swiss and Austrian routes will always be faster to go to Italy. basta
There won't be regular services in the Gotthard base tunnel which will run faster than 160 km/h though. While it is not foreseeable yet which speeds will be operated in the Frejus base tunnel, it seems to me more likely that high speed services could actually reach the design speed of this tunnel.
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Old January 21st, 2016, 12:35 PM   #3211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
Absolutely ridiculous. Why do you not look at a map or a rail schedule before making such claims? Today a direct train Basel-Milano takes 4 hrs. By comparison, the same trip via Lyon takes 8 hrs. No tunnel in the world can make that much difference.
The Gotthard Tunnel does not really help trains coming from Frankfurt-Basel, only those from Zurich and Stuttgart, but the other trains will benefit from the mentioned improvements in Switzerland. HSR is good, but it does not perform miracles.
First be polite!

Secondly we are talking about the future. When this tunnel will be completed there will also be other improvements on the high-speed networks. Lyon-Basel HSL is in the plans and the total time for Turin-Basel via this route is expected to be far below 4 hours, plus as I said the link will serve in addition many other routes towards France and Spain.
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Old January 23rd, 2016, 12:12 PM   #3212
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Old January 23rd, 2016, 06:45 PM   #3213
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How? As far as I know there is no high speed line all the way from Brussels or London to Italy.
Who said you need a high speed railway all the way? There are actually not that many high speed trains in Europe that don't spend at least some of their time on the conventional network.
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Old January 24th, 2016, 12:53 AM   #3214
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Last night all freight trains were denied entry into Slovenia due to congested single-track railway to the port of Koper.

http://www.primorske.si/Novice/Istra...-ne-sme-vstopi
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Old January 24th, 2016, 09:52 PM   #3215
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Who said you need a high speed railway all the way? There are actually not that many high speed trains in Europe that don't spend at least some of their time on the conventional network.
I answered about that already. For long distance routes you need all the way high speed railways in order the high speed train to be competitive to the airplane or other transport means. It is not where the high speed train can go, it is how long does it take to go from point A to point B.
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Old January 24th, 2016, 09:53 PM   #3216
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The ERB train from Heerlen no longer goes direct to Aachen or Duren. It now ends in Herzogenrath and you must change train to continue further.
I'm not sure who's bright Idea this is.
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Old January 25th, 2016, 01:19 AM   #3217
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It'll be back in 2 years right? And continue to Maastricht and liege
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Old January 25th, 2016, 03:16 AM   #3218
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Almost 3 years, its 01/2016 now the plan is for Limax in 12/2018. One thing I've learned about scedules is that they can only slip. Anyway, the upshot is what was once a straight trip now involves a change of train and platform.
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Old January 30th, 2016, 12:45 PM   #3219
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Eurotunnel traffic until 2015

Throughout 2015, and excluding MyFerryLink (*), revenues increased by 5%.
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Following the decision by the Competition Appeal Tribunal on 9 January 2015 (confirmed by the Supreme Court on 16 December 2015) with regard to theprohibition on operating out of the port of Dover for the MyFerryLink ships after 9July 2015, the Group is forced to announce its withdrawal from its maritime business.
Eurostar passengers (historical record) remain, the cars fell by 1%, 7% coaches, freight trains by 17% and 14% tons, trucks increase by 3% (record high).


In Excel format on Wikipedia
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Old February 1st, 2016, 02:46 PM   #3220
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High speed rail books

Please, advise me on books about high-speed railways, trains or high-speed railway network development or projects in the world, everything that concerns high speed rail transport and rail project management. Maybe French experience in high speed rail project managment will definetly be useful in my work... Even books in French or German, I can read in these languagues, are possibly available to download, but I don't know where. I've spent much time searching for these books and found just a couple of books but only articles. Thank you!
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