daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old April 2nd, 2017, 05:29 PM   #3421
Nexis
Dark Wolf
 
Nexis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Along the Rails of North Jersey..
Posts: 15,688
Likes (Received): 17044

Førerrumstur Padborg-Malmö Godsbangård

__________________
My FLICKR Page < 54,100+ Photos of Urban Renewal , Infrastructure , Food and Nature in the Northeastern US
Visit the Reorganized New York City Section
My Photography Website
Visit the New Jersey Section
Nexis no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old April 8th, 2017, 02:52 AM   #3422
sotavento
Registered user
 
sotavento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,419
Likes (Received): 322

Quote:
Originally Posted by bench_mark_2 View Post
There have been some reports that Eurostar are decreasing the number of services between Paris and London (the only two cities with population over 10 million in the world being situated so close to each other).

This is rediculous! How come, even with the new trains and with spending tens of billions on infrastructure, they could not reach a travel time of less than two hours (although it has been promised) for a distance of 300 miles! And complain of low revenues, not doing anything to attract passangers and selling tickets at standard price of 80-100 pounds one-way! Note, that the number of flights, for the first time, is more than the railway service that are going to be rum from London do Brussels - so the problem is not the demand at all.
Most people don't NEED to travel from one city directly to another ...
__________________
"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
sotavento no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2017, 03:05 AM   #3423
sotavento
Registered user
 
sotavento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,419
Likes (Received): 322

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Thankfully, train compartments are quite rare theses days. The normal ones (for daytime trains) are already bad when full, it forces people in front of you into your personal space. These for night travel are worse, just small windows and too-close-for-comfort seats.

I never understood why some people say train travel was much better when long-distance trains were mostly all arranged in compartments.
Back in the days TRAIN TRAVEL was an experience ... nowadays it's just a bunch of individualists with 1/2 of them facing back and centered onto themselves.
__________________
"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
sotavento no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2017, 03:15 AM   #3424
sotavento
Registered user
 
sotavento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,419
Likes (Received): 322

Quote:
Originally Posted by bench_mark_2 View Post
They claim that the services between London and Paris are not to be affected. However, the problem is more general - you cannot have two cities, probably the most influential ones in the world history, art, politics, science etc., just two hours of each other, and not to be able to offer an adequate railway service in terms of travel time and price.

Does anyone know why much longer tunnels in Switzerland for example allow for speed of 180 miles per hour, and in the Eurotunnel the speed is restricted to 100 miles per hour? Is that the design of the tunnel, security reasons or something else?
Eurotunel is a submerged caisson tunnel and predates the much improved single track bored transalp tunnels by 2 decades ... the new standard is 155mph(250km/h) single track as in gottard but the 17/20 minute travel time in the transmanche is meaningless compared to 12/15 minutes if it were anewer 250km/h one ... the roundabound route over london and the 90 degree turn i lille are what really matter. and Londoners are used to air travel so most people just fly between the two cities.
__________________
"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
sotavento no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2017, 03:36 AM   #3425
sotavento
Registered user
 
sotavento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,419
Likes (Received): 322

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post
I have just finished this list, which aims to increase and update.

The UIC data (80%) refers to the mean HST that take less than 150 minutes.
The figure for China is the total of CRH trains compared to domestic flights.

I do not have data from Korea (I only have 2005, just start the HS) and Taiwan; You can also put others that are significant, even if they are not from HS, as the last of the graph, so we thank the collaboration with source. Thank you!




It is interesting to compare 35% of the train on the Rome-Milan route in 2004 (with a journey of 238 minutes) with the current 73%, thanks to 170 minutes (little more than an hour of cut, 33%) and to NTV competition.

To make it clearer, I also put them sorted by the average speed:


And by the distance:
Lisboa(oriente)-Porto(Gaia Devesas) takes 149 minutes for the 310km trip
(roughly 122km/h with 2 intermediate stops. Around 5 million passengers. And a recently created air competition (TAP + ryanair) with all kings of traffic increasing both in rail and in air travel.
__________________
"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
sotavento no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2017, 03:53 AM   #3426
Silly_Walks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,980
Likes (Received): 836

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
Eurotunel is a submerged caisson tunnel
Eh?
Silly_Walks no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2017, 08:11 PM   #3427
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
Eurotunel is a submerged caisson tunnel
No, it's not. The Eurotunnel has been made using tunnel boring machines (TBMs).
Quote:
and predates the much improved single track bored transalp tunnels by 2 decades ... the new standard is 155mph(250km/h) single track as in gottard but the 17/20 minute travel time in the transmanche is meaningless compared to 12/15 minutes if it were anewer 250km/h one ...
Eurotunnel consists of three seperately bored tunnels: two tunnels where the trains run, and a service tunnel for servicing and evacuations. There are cross-passages every 375 meters.

Furthermore, there are two crossovers linking the two train tunnels so that the impact on the tunnel's capacity is minimised in the event of disruption.

The lower maximum speed (compared to the Gotthard and Semmering base tunnels) is because there are a lot of freight trains and shuttle services using the Eurotunnel, the high speed passenger services are in the minority.

Quote:
the roundabound route over london
...was axed in 2007 with the opening of St. Pancras International and the second part of the Channel Tunnel Rail Link (now High Speed One).
Quote:
and the 90 degree turn i lille are what really matter.
What 90 degree turn at Lille? Eurostar trains don't call at Lille Flandres, they call at Lille Europe which is a through station.

Quote:
and Londoners are used to air travel so most people just fly between the two cities.
...which is why Eurostar have 80% of the cross-channel market share.
__________________
We are shaping the future

Bart_LCY, Klausenburg, naruciakk liked this post
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2017, 09:03 PM   #3428
00Zy99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,980
Likes (Received): 1507

I think that they might be talking about the fact that HS1 swings out around through Ebbsfleet rather than coming straight up from the south, and the plan to build a cut-off that bypasses Lille entirely. If those two "issues" were rectified, Eurostar would likely have a travel time less than two hours. That would be enough to UTTERLY dominate the market (+95%), and transform things into a commuter system (two hours generally being regarded as the limit of travel time for commuters outside of Japan).
00Zy99 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2017, 09:05 PM   #3429
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21250

They could try to build "London-sul-Mer" in Calais already, with frequent rail links. It would be interesting from a real estate perspective.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2017, 10:36 PM   #3430
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

There has been talk of a commuter style service between Nord-Pas de Calais and Kent under the name "Transmanche Metro". However, I have yet to see that ever materialise given the security regulations, immigration issues, and Brexit.
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 12th, 2017, 05:11 PM   #3431
33Hz
Registered User
 
33Hz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 436
Likes (Received): 47

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
I think that they might be talking about the fact that HS1 swings out around through Ebbsfleet rather than coming straight up from the south, and the plan to build a cut-off that bypasses Lille entirely. If those two "issues" were rectified, Eurostar would likely have a travel time less than two hours. That would be enough to UTTERLY dominate the market (+95%), and transform things into a commuter system (two hours generally being regarded as the limit of travel time for commuters outside of Japan).
You do realise that if you draw a line directly from Folkestone to Central London, it almost goes over Ebbsfleet. The Channel Tunnel is east-southeast of London, not south.
33Hz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 12th, 2017, 06:49 PM   #3432
00Zy99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,980
Likes (Received): 1507

Sorry, I meant Stratford. If the line more closely hugged the Thames and came in from the east more, it would be closer to the City, and could shave off a few minutes.
00Zy99 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2017, 11:05 PM   #3433
K_
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,744
Likes (Received): 243

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
I think that they might be talking about the fact that HS1 swings out around through Ebbsfleet rather than coming straight up from the south, and the plan to build a cut-off that bypasses Lille entirely. If those two "issues" were rectified, Eurostar would likely have a travel time less than two hours. That would be enough to UTTERLY dominate the market (+95%), and transform things into a commuter system (two hours generally being regarded as the limit of travel time for commuters outside of Japan).
They could also cut about half an hour from total travel time by removing the requirement to be at the terminal half an hour before departure. A bit silly to invest billions in infrastructure, and then artificially lengthen the trip with red tape...
__________________

naruciakk liked this post
K_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2017, 01:48 AM   #3434
pimlico30
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 194
Likes (Received): 37


Arrival half an hour before departure? Security and passport checks, luggage and personal belongings through the X-ray scanners - and twice the number than, say, a Boeing 747. It all takes a little longer than simply having your ticket checked!
pimlico30 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2017, 11:02 AM   #3435
MarcVD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Brussels
Posts: 1,070
Likes (Received): 192

The idea behind is that those checks are totally useless and could therefore be abandoned.
__________________

naruciakk liked this post
MarcVD no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2017, 11:17 AM   #3436
Kpc21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Łódź
Posts: 18,391
Likes (Received): 6784

We still don't know what will be the results of Brexit. If the relationships of the UK with the EU afterwards will be Norway-like, Brexit will change nothing here.
Kpc21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2017, 01:55 PM   #3437
Baron Hirsch
Kara Tren Solcusu
 
Baron Hirsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Berlin/Istanbul
Posts: 1,337
Likes (Received): 475

Wrong answer. Norway is Schengen, Uk is not. In that respect, Switzerland and Norway already are closer to the rest of Europe than the self-proclaimed rulers of the waves.
__________________

naruciakk, suasion liked this post
Baron Hirsch no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2017, 02:47 PM   #3438
Kpc21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Łódź
Posts: 18,391
Likes (Received): 6784

Not wrong. If the relationships will be Norway-like, even without Schengen, it will not more difficult to cross the border than it is now.

Norway is European Economic Area.
Kpc21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2017, 03:13 PM   #3439
TGrave
Never mind
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: St. Petersburg
Posts: 501
Likes (Received): 845

"Without Schengen" means border checks. And different visas for outsiders.

You don't need anything for entering Norway from, say, Sweden. I did not even noticed that I had crossed the border when I had visited it by car.

But if I want to enter UK, there is a passport control.
TGrave no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2017, 03:58 PM   #3440
Baron Hirsch
Kara Tren Solcusu
 
Baron Hirsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Berlin/Istanbul
Posts: 1,337
Likes (Received): 475

KPC, I do not know what you are insisting on. As mentioned by TGrave, on an ordinary day, you do not even notice when you cross between Sweden and Norway, or Switzerland and Germany or France. There are numerous cross-border local trains per hour from say Basel to Mulhouse or Freiburg. In fact, the three cities share a common airport.
At best, the arrangement with the UK could stay as is, i.e. a visawaiver for all EU citizens for 3 months stays with no strings attached. But then again, Brexit was mostly about xenophobia and too many Poles in the country and other crap, so the chances are likely that at least we will need an entry stamp to prove we are not on the holy island for too long. Worse though, I remember a system akin to the US being discussed, i.e. you need to electronically apply for each visit, but can still be turned back at the borders.
Baron Hirsch no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium