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Old September 4th, 2008, 02:36 PM   #341
sotonsi
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Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
You (and others here) clearly missinterpreter my entire post.
I interpret it and explain why it was called racist - you made it so that for a native English speaker it would sound at least a little bit racist.
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Chipre is like we in Iberia (Portugal + Spain) call the tiny dual country island in eastern Mediterranean ... and actually the woman could speak fluently in Portuguese, Spanish and Greek.
and are you quite sure that there's no place in Portugal called Chipre (or something similar)? Are you quite sure you didn't misunderstand her? If she can speak fluently in three foreign languages, she's unlikely to be that stupid as to think Cyprus is in Portugal, especially as she can speak the lingo in both those places (she'd know that the alphabet used in the southern part of Cyprus is different to that used in Portugal, for instance).
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And that's the whole point ... there is "no" mainstream anti-EU-mentality over there ... or at least it doesn't seem to be a major current of opinion in the UK ... they simply don't even care about EU enough to be against it.
which just shows your ignorance about the UK! To base a country's opinions on one person (who does seem to be a Europhile and also completely misunderstood by you) is absurd. It would be like as if I was to say that all Portuguese people are racist, because you made some comments that could be considered racist because something got lost in translation (and giving you the benefit of the doubt it did). In fact your above statement is both misinformed and racist - you are tarring a whole nation with a derogatory brush.
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And you can forget the crap you said about any "atempted"/"assumed" intention that I had on my previous post ... simply there is no "concept" of in/out in the UK nowadays (it's actualy one of the most globalized countries in the world).
what are you talking about? And as for implying intention that there was an irony in the fact that the border controls you've seen in the UK have been run by non-white people, I've shown that a native English speaker could easily read that message in your post. You kept making the point that these people were wearing turbans, and dresses and looked foreign. There is a concept of 'in' and 'out' in the UK, at least among a sizeable proportion of it - however the definition of 'in' isn't based on ethnicity or anything like that. You would be seen as 'out', as you don't understand what being British is like - it's a cultural thing.
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Don't claim ethnicity and racism are synonims here because if you start that they you open a can of worms ... ethnicity has no "derrogatory"/"depreciative" background atached to it.
I didn't - I said that race and ethnicity are the same. I then showed how what you said could be seen to be derogatory - 'outsiders', even if the intention wasn't there. You also made a big thing out of the ethnicity of the border control officers and that they weren't of British origin - who cares what race they come from! Your post read like you were saying - look at those white people jump (after all 'white people can't jump' as the film title says), that's amazing! It's subtle, but the racism is there.

As I said earlier, I cannot see what the point of the post in question unless it actually was to make a couple of racist points - about the people of Britain being stupid, lazy and ignorant and about it being strange that those who aren't from European ethnicities and wearing reminders of their heritage are the ones guarding the UK's borders from 'outsiders'.
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Old September 5th, 2008, 02:19 PM   #342
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Uh, what happened to this thread?
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Old September 5th, 2008, 05:23 PM   #343
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The sotavento effect!
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Old September 5th, 2008, 05:44 PM   #344
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TCDD is being privatized too!
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Old September 5th, 2008, 09:19 PM   #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Republica View Post
The sotavento effect!
Not quite right ... the Republica (and others) flamming.



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Old September 5th, 2008, 10:58 PM   #346
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Nationalization of infraestructures is a "last resourse" in terms of infraestructure , transportation and telecomunications.

Nationalisation of operations is THE last resource before doomday in terms of infraestructure , transportation and telecomunications.

Slightly different things.


EU directives are an atempt to create european wide large companies and regional wide small companies ... both specialized in different tipes of traffic.

Looking at the recent and present developments we will be having a DB/SNCF-owned european wide freight company (gogo self imploding BR Renfe and FS) and then a great variety of regional(state/region owned or not) and private companies (most of them with only one a to b route) ... most private are rail sub.companies of either distribution roadhaulers or infraestructure contractors.

Private passenger companies tend to be exclusively subsidiaries of private road passenger corporations (like arriva and first) or local municipalities.

So if one considers the 50 years of "full nationalization" (between the end of WW2 and the end of the century) as THE anormality ... we can clearly see that railways in europe returned to the old self sustained private enterprise driven companies ... as was always intended from the start.
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Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
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Old September 6th, 2008, 12:26 AM   #347
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The privatisation of British Rail was a disaster that was brought about through lack of vision, planning and proper consultation. The process was rushed because the late Conservative government were desperate to privatise the railways before, what they then believed, would be an inevitable defeat at the polls a couple years later. As a result of the rush to privatise, it was done badly. Privatising the infrastructure was a huge mistake. Railtrack turned the railways into a national joke and disaster was always going to be inevitable. After a number of crashes, Railtrack went under and what rose from the ashes was Network Rail, a private, not for profit hybrid company that would look after the railways, in effect a semi-nationalised body with a huge monopoly.

I think I read somewhere that the Competition Commission or the ORR (Office for Rail Regulation) recommended that there be two infrastructure companies to compete with one another and break the monopoly held. Personally, I prefer the current option we have now because I don't think competition in regard to infrastructure works.

The infrastructure, in my opinion should remain in public hands. It makes sense. I also think that railway stations/terminii, should be run like airports, slot controlled. A company bids for certain slots and operates it. If it does not operate well, then it should have it's slot taken away.

Rolling Stock, ROSCO's are probably here to stay and it does allow small companies to start up easily and allow open access. However, since they have no franchise to worry about, the onus should be on them to maintain a modern fleet of trains for operating companies to lease.
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Old September 6th, 2008, 06:22 AM   #348
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more or less of a disaster than the BR years ???


Ever heard about Beeching axe ???

If nationwide "nationalization" never ocurred in the past would there be a better "privatized" environment in todays railways across europe ???

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Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
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Old September 6th, 2008, 10:38 AM   #349
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Only after the nationalization of Railtrack the privatization became really successful.

And most European countries have learned from the Railtrack debacle and only "privatized" the operations while keeping the infrastructure in a government owned body/company. But the national railways in most of the EU countries aren't even privatized, it's usually only deregulation. In this way the national railway companies remain state owned but have to face some sort of competition. And that's usually only when new long term concessions are being given for the core network. Separate concessions are given on local routes, usually by local authorities and not by the state.

There's not much direct competition going on for now. Only in Germany on some routes and soon in Italy with the AGVs from NTV, even in the UK there are only some operators that run outside the concessions on a few routes. And from 2010 all international routes in the EU will be fully opened for competition, but I doubt it will have big effects other then some new international night trains in the tourist seasons.

Real privatization, in the sense that the old national railway companies won't be government owned anymore is still far away. Many governments just don't want to part with their national railway companies.
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Old September 6th, 2008, 05:16 PM   #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
more or less of a disaster than the BR years ???


Ever heard about Beeching axe ???

If nationwide "nationalization" never ocurred in the past would there be a better "privatized" environment in todays railways across europe ???

Yes I have heard of the Beeching Axe. I never said that the days under British Rail were any better than the disaster of privatisation.

Fact is, the system that arose after privatisation was as bad as, if not worse. It certainly was not an ideal solution and to claim otherwise would be beyond sense. The system in place now, is different to that of the immediate years after privatisation.
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Old September 6th, 2008, 05:33 PM   #351
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it suppossed to get better with the form of concurrency, and a healthy marked. same thing they did with electricity, and some other things. it supposed to get cheaper and better with privatisation, no more monopoly position for state company's
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Old September 6th, 2008, 05:39 PM   #352
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One benefit with privatization (of at least the operating companies, keeping the track infrastructure in 'common' hands, like the roads, allowed to be used by anyone 'qualified' to do so) is that these operating companies MUST 'sell' their services and haul stuff if they are to make money. The nationalized operating companies did not have that incentive and it shows with the CHOKING levels of lorry traffic on the highways of the countries with such nationalized railways.

If the railways would just go out and get that business, it would clear a LOT of traffic off of those highways.

Just imagine what truck/lorry traffic would be like now on the USA's interstates if not for the private freight railroads, which are now operating at or slightly above their capacities.

Mike
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Old September 6th, 2008, 05:49 PM   #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cees View Post
it suppossed to get better with the form of concurrency, and a healthy marked. same thing they did with electricity, and some other things. it supposed to get cheaper and better with privatisation, no more monopoly position for state company's
This is completely ridiculous when it comes to many forms of transport, but even more so utilities.

You cant create effective competition with utilities companies or trains, as the consumer has only one choice. Its just not realiastic for someone to take a later train because it has slightly better trains or a discount fare. Just as someone isnt going to take a bus like this.

On top of that, these efforts for the different companies to outdo each other means that they make no effort to help customers have good transport links with the other companies. Different ticketing and rules and regulations just confuse passengers, resulting in people that are put off by the confusion of public transport.

Thankfully, slowly things are getting better, but it is only with regulation that it gets better, free competition just doesnt work IMO (in the majority of caes)
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Old September 7th, 2008, 08:46 PM   #354
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Franchising in portugal has 20/30 years to run ... in the UK they run what ??? 5 years ??
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"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
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Old September 7th, 2008, 11:44 PM   #355
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7 years I think is the standard, which is a big problem in my opinion as it discourages franchisee's to invest for the long term as there is little likelihood of them recovering their investment. Personally, I think this limit should be raised to 25-30 years so long as the government have the authority to end the franchise prematurely if there is consistent poor performance. Sort of like Connex
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Old September 8th, 2008, 02:00 AM   #356
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The frachising system encourages short term profits.

I just dont understand how people can make such obviously dimwitted decisions such as these and get away with it. Long term franchises with reviews periodically and targets for good performance which mean bonuses for the operators, penalties for failings and set situations in which a contract can be revoked.
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Old September 8th, 2008, 03:29 PM   #357
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Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
Franchising in portugal has 20/30 years to run ... in the UK they run what ??? 5 years ??
It is a bit longer than that but the length varies for each particular franchise. The Competition Commission (or whatever they are called) has just released a statement about its investigation into the railways. It states that the short terms of the franchising is damaging investment in the network by the TOCs and ROSCOs. The full report is due early 2009.
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Old September 8th, 2008, 03:35 PM   #358
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I just dont understand how people can make such obviously dimwitted decisions such as these and get away with it.
Because most of the public are too dimwitted to notice and instead just blame the incumbent prime minister for everything (because thats what the paper tells them to do). I'm pessimistic but everything stupid that has ever happened is because people are being stupid. I wish people would care more about governments than shopping.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 11:41 AM   #359
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Air France to launch 'quicker' train to Paris as Eurostar monopoly ends
11 September 2008
The Independent

FARES AND journey times for passengers travelling to Europe could fall in just two years after an announcement by Air France that it is to compete with Eurostar by running a high-speed rail service to Paris.

The trip from London could take less than two hours under the company's plan to bring a new generation of high-speed trains to St Pancras station. They will be capable of a maximum speed of 224mph, 38mph faster than the current top speed of trains running to France.

Eurostar's monopoly will come to an end at the start of 2010, when new "open access" laws come into force.

The economic downturn has hit airlines hard, while the popularity of high-speed rail travel has been booming. Eurostar saw passenger numbers rise by 18 per cent in the first half of this year.

Eurostar came out fighting last night, saying that it welcomed competition and interest from airlines "had been expected". It added that airlines had "a lot to learn" before they could compete.

"This shows that airlines now realise that high-speed rail is increasingly the natural choice for business and leisure journeys across Europe," a spokesman said.

"It's no surprise that airlines hit by high oil prices and congested airports are trying to turn themselves into train operators. We will continue to compete with them whether they use wings or wheels."

It was also dismissive of Air France's claims that it could reach Paris in under two hours, saying that the current top speed of 186mph had been introduced because of the limitations of the track, rather than its train's capabilities.

But a source involved in the development of St Pancras' track disagreed. "It is no longer the track that is holding back train speeds, but the trains," said the source. "With a few modifications and testing, I see no reason why the new generation of TGV trains cannot run on the track."

Air France-KLM, which is also planning a service between Paris and Amsterdam, said it hoped to launch its London to Paris service by October 2010.

An industry insider said: "Just imagine arriving at the station and being able to pick from destinations from all over Europe such as Prague, Cologne and Frankfurt. Competition will be great news for consumers."

Virgin Atlantic is also thought to be interested in setting up a European high-speed rail service under the liberalisation plan, while the German operator Deutsche Bahn has expressed interest in running a service from London to Cologne. From there, passengers would have easy access to cities including Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Munich, Berlin and Hamburg.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 02:30 PM   #360
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If only there were through services from London to elsewhere...

This is certainly very promising. Surely the UK side of the line is engineered with a spec that means it could serve much faster trains. I'm not sure about the French side seeing as it is much older seeing as they got their act together quicker!

Anyone know the top speed of HS1?
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