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Old September 27th, 2010, 11:12 PM   #781
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why don't they use variable gauge rolling stock such as Talgo?
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Old September 27th, 2010, 11:24 PM   #782
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Quote:
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In Russian

In Ukrainian
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Old September 28th, 2010, 05:46 AM   #783
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The main thing I think that will put European travellers off this is the need for a Belarusian transit visa on top of a Russian one. This really adds to the price and bureaucracy. I imagine this is not a problem for CIS passport holders?
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Old September 28th, 2010, 07:13 AM   #784
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Quote:
why don't they use variable gauge rolling stock such as Talgo?
Expense, likely.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 10:31 AM   #785
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Like they do it between Spain and France, I suppose: lifting the whole body and replacing the bogies.
That's not what they do between France and Spain...
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Old September 28th, 2010, 02:38 PM   #786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thun View Post
Like they do it between Spain and France, I suppose: lifting the whole body and replacing the bogies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
That's not what they do between France and Spain...
Look the the thread Automatic and manual changing gauge and you will no more about Spain automatic technology. In french border the "Francisco de Goya" (Paris-Madrid) doesn't stop.

Quote:
I guess they are used manual changing gauge like between Ukrain and Austria

Quote:
Ukraine - Austria

The travel is 53 hours. So 30min more is not very important.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 04:18 PM   #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
That's not what they do between France and Spain...
They still do it, but for freight trains only.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 06:33 PM   #788
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Quote:
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I imagine this is not a problem for CIS passport holders?
yes, CIS passport holders need only one schengen visa
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Old September 28th, 2010, 07:39 PM   #789
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Quote:
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Look the the thread Automatic and manual changing gauge and you will no more about Spain automatic technology. In french border the "Francisco de Goya" (Paris-Madrid) doesn't stop.
I'm even going to see it in person. Travelling to Barcelona by train in two weeks. :-)
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Old September 28th, 2010, 08:24 PM   #790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
They still do it, but for freight trains only.
Oh, I didn't know that. For conventional passenger railcars (like the Paris - Lisbon Express) the bogies were changed at least until the mid 90ies. Does anyone know since when these trains are replaced?
I don't know about the Talgo sleepers to Switzerland and Italy though: Had they alway the automatic change?

I simply suppose that for the very few direct trains out of Russia, automatic gauge changing facilities would be too expensive. And I'm not aware of any train besides the Talgo that would be able to do so. Especially not conventional railcars.

There is a narrow gauge/standard gauge automatic changing bogie for a Swiss copany (MOB, I think) under development/testing afaik.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 08:29 PM   #791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
That's not what they do between France and Spain...
Today, all trains that cross the border between France and Spain use the
variable gauge Talgo technology. But it has not been always so. Some time
ago, trains like the Sud Express used classical sleeper and couchette cars,
which, at the border, where lifted up in order to substitute the bogies. I do
not remember where the bogie-changing facility was installed, in Hendaye or
Irun, but as far as I know, it is still there, albeit unused. Those trains have
disappeared when TGV atlantique came in.

At the border between ex-URSS and neighbouring countries, such installations
still exist and function several times per day, like for example at Brest-Litovsk
on the line from Warsaw to Moscow. This is probably where this new train
Nice-Moscow has its bogies changed.

In the sixties, there was even a sleeper car that circulated once a week
between Moscow and Madrid, thus with two bogie changes en route and
usage of 3 different gauges !
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Old September 28th, 2010, 08:36 PM   #792
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fantastic train
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Old September 28th, 2010, 08:39 PM   #793
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Who is going to pay more than € 400 to travel 54h? Let alone € 1000? With the latter, you can buy business class air tickets

In a nutshell: an expensive toys the Russian state company is using to promote itself in Europe. Don't think it will last, it is not adequate to remain 54h in a closed compartment.

It failed badly arriving 30min late on its first journey. A fiasco in terms of any train journey. Let's see how it goes on.

Meanwhile, I hope European governments keep an eye on the car's safety records, maintenance and so.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 08:45 PM   #794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
I'm even going to see it in person. Travelling to Barcelona by train in two weeks. :-)
From ?

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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Who is going to pay more than € 400 to travel 54h? Let alone € 1000? With the latter, you can buy business class air tickets

In a nutshell: an expensive toys the Russian state company is using to promote itself in Europe. Don't think it will last, it is not adequate to remain 54h in a closed compartment.

It failed badly arriving 30min late on its first journey. A fiasco in terms of any train journey. Let's see how it goes on.

Meanwhile, I hope European governments keep an eye on the car's safety records, maintenance and so.
On tv, they talked about people who love trains, and have time (mostly older people). 1050 euros the luxury cabin !
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Old September 28th, 2010, 09:02 PM   #795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Who is going to pay more than € 400 to travel 54h? Let alone € 1000? With the latter, you can buy business class air tickets

In a nutshell: an expensive toys the Russian state company is using to promote itself in Europe. Don't think it will last, it is not adequate to remain 54h in a closed compartment.

It failed badly arriving 30min late on its first journey. A fiasco in terms of any train journey. Let's see how it goes on.

Meanwhile, I hope European governments keep an eye on the car's safety records, maintenance and so.
Well, I paid 600$ to travel by train for ~84h from Toronto to Vancouver in May
The flight back took only 4-5 hours but believe me, it was nowhere near as interesting as the rail trip.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 09:34 PM   #796
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Yeah. The same kind of people, which travel on the Transsiberian in holidays. Obviously, it's not an offer for regular travellers, but those who see the trip itself as part of their holidays (unlike people who would go by plane to Nice, for them the trip itself is more a unpleasant necessity to get to the holiday itself). Probably there is a market for it.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 10:14 PM   #797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Meanwhile, I hope European governments keep an eye on the car's safety records, maintenance and so.
RZD and the Soviet railways before them have been running trains to cities in western Europe for decades, so the Moscow-Nice train isn't really anything new. They use specially built rolling stock for these trains, and if they couldn't maintain it to European standards they would probably just cancel services instead of risking being banned from European networks.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 10:45 PM   #798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gag Halfrunt View Post
RZD and the Soviet railways before them have been running trains to cities in western Europe for decades, so the Moscow-Nice train isn't really anything new. They use specially built rolling stock for these trains, and if they couldn't maintain it to European standards they would probably just cancel services instead of risking being banned from European networks.
I used to ride the Moscow - Oostende train quite regularly back form high school in Brussel when I was a teenager. We used to collect the beerbottles :-)

Russian stock looked a bit odd then. It still does, but it sure will meet standards.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 10:50 PM   #799
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Who is going to pay more than € 400 to travel 54h? Let alone € 1000? With the latter, you can buy business class air tickets
I personally don't consider long trains trips a waste of time. On the contrary. I suddenly have time to read a book, talk with strangers, look at the landscape...
It is actually becoming a sign of wealth that you can spare the time... The people that absolutely always must go everywhere as fast as possible are pretty poor sods in my opinion. Always a slave to the clock. But I do understand dat being able to take your time to travel somewhere is a luxury for many people.

Quote:
It failed badly arriving 30min late on its first journey. A fiasco in terms of any train journey.
Given that the train had to pass through Italy only being late by 30 minutes is actually quite an achievement.

Anyway. RZD have been reinstating quite a few night trains. We've seen recent reintroductions of trains to Amsterdam and to Basel for example.
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Old September 29th, 2010, 12:09 AM   #800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Who is going to pay more than € 400 to travel 54h? Let alone € 1000? With the latter, you can buy business class air tickets
As one already commented, this is the difference between travelling and
just displacing yourself. You can also still cross the atlantic by ship although
it is possible to almost everyone to buy an economy class flight for that...

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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
In a nutshell: an expensive toys the Russian state company is using to promote itself in Europe. Don't think it will last, it is not adequate to remain 54h in a closed compartment.
Why then are all trans-siberian trains, that take even longer, packed to death
each summer ? And why do you have to reserve months in advance, and pay
$5000, to cross Siberia on board the Golden Eagle Express ? There are
countless other examples of the same thing. People board those trains the
same way they embark for a cruise. Same for all long-distance Amtrak trains,
which are also often running full, even in seated class.

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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
It failed badly arriving 30min late on its first journey. A fiasco in terms of any train journey. Let's see how it goes on.
Give me a break ! 30 minutes late after 54 hours of travel is less than 1% of
deviation on the official schedule. So much can happen on such a journey !
By the same rule, even the longest flight should never arrive more than 10
minutes late... I have flown enough to know that the airline industry does not
have, by far, such a good track record !

And, by the way, the train was on time when it arrived in Vintimiglia. It
caught the entirety of its 30 minutes delay only on this small bit of the
french railways network. French railways management is very much against
night trains since a few years. Altough sabotage is probably a bit
exaggerated, I do not expect true co-operation either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Meanwhile, I hope European governments keep an eye on the car's safety records, maintenance and so.
Which car are you speaking about ? The ones that make up this train's consist ? They are brand new, have been built to European standards, and
are the same as those making a regular appearance in Paris, Amsterdam,
Berlin, and alot of other places in Europe. In the past, USSR and then Russia
dispatched sleeping cars from Moscow to almost every capital of Europe,
and as far as I know, no russian carriage has ever been the cause of one
single accident.
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