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Old October 2nd, 2010, 05:54 PM   #841
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Eurostar selected the Velaro-D, the latest version of Germany’s ICE high-speed train family, over Alstom’s AGV, as its preferred option in June, but the deal became public only on Friday
What a punch for Alstom !
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 01:04 AM   #842
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Threads like this are for railfans, people who like friendships, landscapes, meeting with foreigners...

Suburbanist wrote his opinion, and why to discus who is more clever... For example, I like trains and don`t want to have a car. I have driving licence only to put something more in CV. Why to use bad words for different people?

I used train Belgrade-Moscow-Yekaterinburg-Belgrade in 2008, and that was the best travel in my life. I like Russian railways and Russian people. I just start to learn Russian language in those trains, surrounded with people who don`t speak English, and never feel like a stranger. Long distance trains are very popular in Russia. One girl in Yekaterinburg told me "When all train tickets are sold, I don`t want to travel. I don`t understand that someone can don`t like trains" .
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 01:33 AM   #843
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This is pretty much the issue with these threads. People associate cars with a lifestyle who'd be inherently bad and negative and question whether those who are not exactly "fans" of rail should participate - in a forum that is not a railfan forum only like SSC -.

Calling those who dare to be train critics or skeptics (like me) "a troll" or something alike is just random online display of rudeness.

There is nothing wrong being a person interested in rail, but there should be nothing wrong being someone who is interested in car-centered lifestyle.
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 07:32 AM   #844
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It's not that, it's that we just get a little tired of your constant anti-PT/density/urbanity rhetoric. We don't pollute the Highways and Autobahn section with our views on the whole so why should we put up with yours in oh so many threads?
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 10:59 AM   #845
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Exactly. Nothing wrong about criticism, but if every thrad in the section is spammed with the same stuff, it's trolling somehow.

"People associate cars with a lifestyle who'd be inherently bad and negative and question whether those who are not exactly "fans" of rail should participate - in a forum that is not a railfan forum only like SSC."
I'm afraid if we turn the sentence around, we'll end up with a perfect description of your behaviour here.
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 11:47 AM   #846
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
This is pretty much the issue with these threads. People associate cars with a lifestyle who'd be inherently bad and negative and question whether those who are not exactly "fans" of rail should participate - in a forum that is not a railfan forum only like SSC -.
It's to you that car versus PT seems to be a lifestyle choice, not a choice of mode of transportation. Don't be surprised it doesn't go well with some people here.
You have been constantly using the argument car = individualist = capitalist = free market = good and public transport = collectivist = statist = bad. You should be aware that this argument can be turned around. Roads have always been collectivist, whereas railways actually originated in the heydays of free market capitalism... There you have it. The train is capitalist, and the car is communist. That's why I like trains.
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 11:55 AM   #847
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Actually tgv-europe.com is willing to sell me a ticket Perpignan-Milano on the Salvador Dali elipsos hoteltrain for EUR 69. (Tuesday 5 Oct, as it only runs every other day)
Elipsos will sell you tickets from Perpignan to Italy or Milano, but not from Barcelona to Perpignan. That's their choice. They only want passengers that stay on the train overnight.

As to the rules regarding transportation of domestic passengers on international trains; that varies from service to service.
In most European countries open access passenger railways are only allowed to operate international trains. So they cannot pick up passengers within one country and set them down again in the same country (cabotage). A bit like with long distance buses.
But where international services are just cooperations between national railways companies there is no legal barrier to "cabotage". An example: The TGV Lyria from Zürich to Basel. This train can (and is) used for domestic trips. A lot of people board this in Zürich to go to Basel (and normal domestic fares and passes apply, reservastion is not needed), and this train also picks up passengers in Mulhouse and Strassbourgh for Paris.
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 12:58 PM   #848
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Some photos








They have discount for senior people, older than 60 y.o., the price starts from 225e

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Old October 3rd, 2010, 01:18 PM   #849
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Regarding the route in Austria? It does go from Vienna via Kitzbühel to Innsbruck, right? Or do they take the route via Germany?
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 01:21 PM   #850
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Sururbanist is from the Netherlands. The Dutch (not all but a substantial part of them) don't like the free markets anymore...... Actually, they are against everything which is connected with foreign countries. In this perspective, I can understand why Suburbanist doesn't advocate a train from Moscow to Nice.
On the contrary, Suburbanist opposes all regulation of and subsidies for public transport as competition-distorting interference in the free market.
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 01:39 PM   #851
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On the contrary, Suburbanist opposes all regulation of and subsidies for public transport as competition-distorting interference in the free market.
I have supported and defended in this forum that infra-structure should/could be built and maintainded by the government, directly or indirectly (tracks, runways, waterways and highways/roads), while the VECHICLE OPERATION and TRANSPORTATION of goods and people should be done by private enterprise only.

I'm fiercly against government-operated train services, though I'm not against government-built and government-maintained tracks, stations and other infra-structure trains need to run over. But the moment a state or state-sponsored company sings a lease for a trainset, it overstep its boundaries.

For me it is clear as water, but many forumers don't get the idea of separating property, operation and scheduling of tracks from trains, while airplanes are separated from runways, cars and trucks are separated from highways, and barges/vessels are separated from ports/channels/waterways.

We have a reasonable free market on air transport and water transport, we should have one in rail.

Moreover, coordinated train schedules are my enemy #1, because they essentially oblige private parties to adhere to a central planning concerned with "managing and tweaking" the whole system, picking winners and losers, not providing infrastructure so private operators could thrive.

As for regulation, I amall in favor or safety regulations and those essential to guarantee minimum operating standards and consumer protection.
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 01:48 PM   #852
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Moreover, coordinated train schedules are my enemy #1, because they essentially oblige private parties to adhere to a central planning concerned with "managing and tweaking" the whole system, picking winners and losers, not providing infrastructure so private operators could thrive.
This is what I don't get. You are basically in favor of using tax payer money to the benefit of more profit for private enterprise. En you call yourself pro free market? You seem to believe that the governments main purpose is to serve as a milking cow for rent seeking private companies. (And if you don't know what "rent seeking" is, you've got no business defending the free market).
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 02:24 PM   #853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol View Post
Sururbanist is from the Netherlands. The Dutch (not all but a substantial part of them) don't like the free markets anymore...... Actually, they are against everything which is connected with foreign countries. In this perspective, I can understand why Suburbanist doesn't advocate a train from Moscow to Nice.
You're an idiot.

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This is what I don't get. You are basically in favor of using tax payer money to the benefit of more profit for private enterprise. En you call yourself pro free market? You seem to believe that the governments main purpose is to serve as a milking cow for rent seeking private companies. (And if you don't know what "rent seeking" is, you've got no business defending the free market).
You're assuming he favours a free market for ideological reasons. While I don't know his reasons, there are many of us who see the free market as a means to an end as opposed to an end goal in itself. If, all in all, a state-maintained rail infrastructure is more cost-effective than a disparate patchwork operated by private companies while free competition among transport companies operating on the tracks yields the best service for the lowest price then that's how we get the most value for money. In this case, the role of the state is to provide an even ground (the tracks) for competitors to fight it out on. Rent-seeking or not.
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 03:28 PM   #854
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Please, the thread is Moscow-Nice new train service.

Make new thread and call it: Is it necessary to subsidize public transport

If there is moderator, he can replace some posts from this thread to new one. I have my opinion, but I don`t want to write it on this place.
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 06:53 PM   #855
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...

Given that the train had to pass through Italy only being late by 30 minutes is actually quite an achievement.

...
Who cares about this?
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 08:07 PM   #856
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Who cares about this?
Well, most people prefer their trips to begin and end on time.
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 09:09 PM   #857
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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
I don't know if it accept passengers from and to a city outside Russia.
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I suppose they would be. The Basel - Moscow train can be used to travel from Basel to Berlin, for example.
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I'm pretty sure that that's allowed. Free markets, you know.
Just to get back to this: last summer I took the direct Amsterdam-Moscow train, which is also only one carriage, coupled with other carriages (just like the Basel-Moscow train). As far as I know these carriages can only be used for travel to or from Belarus/Russia. Same with the CNL/EN from Prague/Warsaw to Amsterdam. It's not allowed to board the train after Berlin. So you cannot use this train to get from e.g. Hannover to Amsterdam. All platform signs ("Zugzielanzeiger", I don't know the English word) show that it's not allowed to enter the train.
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 09:22 PM   #858
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Yes, but as we said, that does not necessarily has to be because of EU regulations. especially for the intra-EU trains.
For night trains the more obvious explanation is that these only have sleeping compartments which can't be used for trips too short to use the bed (e.g. the Talgo trenhoteles to Milan and Zurich which don't have any seats to my knowledge) or where getting off after 4 or 5 hours would mean disturbing other passengers which want to sleep. Therefore, such trains typically feature one, two or more boarding stations and one, two or more destinations with sufficient time in between.
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Old October 4th, 2010, 12:00 PM   #859
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Originally Posted by Timon91 View Post
Just to get back to this: last summer I took the direct Amsterdam-Moscow train, which is also only one carriage, coupled with other carriages (just like the Basel-Moscow train). As far as I know these carriages can only be used for travel to or from Belarus/Russia.
About two years ago when I was booking Basel - Berlin both trains where suggested. However I see now that the Basel - Warsawa - Moskva train doesn't officially call at Berlin anymore. Which is a bit odd, since it gets combined with the train from Amsterdam, which does...
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Old October 4th, 2010, 12:07 PM   #860
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You're assuming he favours a free market for ideological reasons. While I don't know his reasons, there are many of us who see the free market as a means to an end as opposed to an end goal in itself. If, all in all, a state-maintained rail infrastructure is more cost-effective than a disparate patchwork operated by private companies while free competition among transport companies operating on the tracks yields the best service for the lowest price then that's how we get the most value for money. In this case, the role of the state is to provide an even ground (the tracks) for competitors to fight it out on. Rent-seeking or not.
I'm not against free market. However when tax payer money is poured in to infrastructure the main concern of the government should not be providing maximum value to train operating companies. It should be providing maximum value to the tax payer.
In that case I think the state does have a role beyond simply leveling the field. I think there is nothing wrong with encouraging operating companies to provide a comprehensive schedules, and keep them from cherry picking only the most profitable services.
A line with a train ever half hour has more value to the public than a line where 5 companies all compete for the rush hour traffic, but leave the line underserved at other times.
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