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Old October 7th, 2010, 10:59 PM   #881
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of course it's an addition, but i would expect AGV, not new Velaro for Eurostar
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Old October 7th, 2010, 11:01 PM   #882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larmey View Post
What will happen with the current train sets? It's so hard to believe that they are pushing on upwards of 20 years of age?
Those trains will remain in service, these 10 new Velaro's are in addition to the trainsets already in use. Eurostar wants to expand their offerings but to be able to do so they need more trains.
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Old October 7th, 2010, 11:03 PM   #883
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Actually, the video would have said what is going to happen to the old trains.
They will be refurbished.

Direct connections to Austria (and possibly Switzerland) might only make sense as seasonal services, in particular for skiers (just like Eurostar already offered/offers to some French ressorts). They wouldn't compete with planes in the business traveller target group but rather with cars people would otherwise use to get there.
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Old October 7th, 2010, 11:39 PM   #884
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From what I've understood Geneva is on the radar as well. Geneva - London would be about 5 hours which matches the average time a plane takes when you include all the safety checks, getting around at the airports and getting to/from the airports.
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Old October 8th, 2010, 12:04 AM   #885
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Can anyone elaborate on the rules of the Eurotunnel and why the Velaro does not meet them?
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Old October 8th, 2010, 12:17 AM   #886
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Maybe because the Velaro is not a french production?
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Old October 8th, 2010, 12:38 AM   #887
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Afaik, the Velaro already has all necessary certifications. Apparently it's really one more episode of classic French industry-government rope teams here.
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Old October 8th, 2010, 12:45 AM   #888
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Can anyone elaborate on the rules of the Eurotunnel and why the Velaro does not meet them?
The Velaro D was specifically designed for international services. The older models do not meet the Tunnel rule of being able to split a train in the tunnel. One of the reasons the Eurostars are so long.
From what I read, there was a review that recommended changing the rules to allow non-splittable trains to use the channel. Hopefully the rules will be changed.

I know one great feature of the Siemens train sets are the glass operator doors that allow a driver's eye view. Do TGV's have this feature too?
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Old October 8th, 2010, 12:58 AM   #889
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TGVs do not have that feature, as the first and the last car of a TGV trainset are its locomotives. The current Eurostar trainsets are TGVs as well so the same applies.

Up until recently, several rules were placed upon passenger trains wanting to go through the tunnel:
* The train should be able to be split in the middle
* The minimum length should be 400 meters so there is always a door opposite or close to an emergency exit, 2 doors if the driver stops his train well
* The train manager should be a certified train driver who resides in the other cab car during the tunnel crossing, so that in case of an emergency he can drive the splitted part back to where they came from

Because in 15 years of operating the Channel Tunnel none of these measures have ever been required, most of them are being looked into and altered or dropped. The 400 meter length is likely to stay, but the splitting rule is to be dropped.

I am not quite sure what restrictions would be in place which would make the E320 unsuited for the Channel Tunnel. I guess it's French protectionism.
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Old October 8th, 2010, 05:05 AM   #890
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They look good...but will this actually happen?
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Old October 8th, 2010, 08:25 AM   #891
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Quote:
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I know one great feature of the Siemens train sets are the glass operator doors that allow a driver's eye view. Do TGV's have this feature too?
The TGV doesn't, and neither does the Velaro. It's one of these things Siemens had to sacrifice in order to make the train TSI compliant.
A pity, though. I really like the forward lounge.
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Old October 8th, 2010, 08:27 AM   #892
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Originally Posted by thun View Post
Direct connections to Austria (and possibly Switzerland) might only make sense as seasonal services, in particular for skiers (just like Eurostar already offered/offers to some French ressorts). They wouldn't compete with planes in the business traveller target group but rather with cars people would otherwise use to get there.
One advantage of the train is that it can serve more destinations with one service. But the problem Eurostar has is the idiotic check in and security requirement. Otherwise you could have a London - Geneva - Brig Eurostar with stops at all the major transfer points on the way.
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Old October 8th, 2010, 08:51 AM   #893
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Originally Posted by sergiogiorgini View Post
I don't want to be too geographically self-centered here, but so Eurostar really does plan to service Amsterdam one day, as the Velaro will allow it to. (That's what it says on Railway Gazette, anyway.) I thought it had been firmly established around here that this would be practically impossible for infrastructural reasons in the Netherlands. (Space for check-in areas in already overcrowded stations, etc.)
Maybe that idiocy will finally be dispensed with.

Quote:
Anyway, it sounds like good news to me, even if it's quite the dagger in the back of the French.
Times are changing. Even the French sometimes buy German trains nowadays. A lot of noise will be made to appease the unions, but in the end the trains will be aproved, as France really can't put to much obstacles in the path of a train that meets the TSI specs.
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Old October 8th, 2010, 09:23 AM   #894
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Given that this is basically a double length Velaro D, who is to say that electrically it isn't in fact two units joined together? It could be two trains with normal passenger cars rather than driving cars in the middle. Then it could be split.

I'm a bit disappointed that the top speed is only 320 km/h. With its Chinese brother now claiming 380 km/h, I'd have thought they would have at least specified 350 km/h minimum for the train. I'm sure we will see that become allowable on some lines during this train's lifetime. It would also allow them to get London - Paris well under 2 hours.

As for the French protectionism... Like I said in another thread recently, it seems a bit daft to criticise distributed traction when your competing offer was the AGV. Idiots. Still, I am sure they will come up with some insurmountable reason why the train can't go on the LGV Nord Europe without a lengthy test campaign. So much for European harmonisation. It's all very nice until it doesn't work in their favour.
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Old October 8th, 2010, 10:48 AM   #895
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i'm surprised with 320 as well. there are many articles which say how costs rapidly rise for each km/h above 300. at all, are there any lines in France (except Paris - Strasbourg) made for speeds over 300 km/h? equiping the train with limitators for higher speed is the least problem.

btw, what is with platforms? how will they deal with them if the service comes to Geneva or some other cities? will they use those funny american-styled plastic steps?
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Old October 8th, 2010, 11:09 AM   #896
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btw, what is with platforms? how will they deal with them if the service comes to Geneva or some other cities? will they use those funny american-styled plastic steps?
What problem with platforms do you expect? The train is 400m long, which is the maximum length allowed under the interoperability standard. Most major railway stations in Europe have platforms long enough for these trains. Both DB, SNCF and SBB already run trains of that length.
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Old October 8th, 2010, 11:31 AM   #897
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I don't see any market for an Austria-London train service. It would take at least 7 hours. That is too much. You can "compete" with airlines when your high-speed train travel time is below 3h, sometimes when it is below 4h30, rarely otherwise. It just takes too long.
By compete you mean achieve significant market share. Eurostar already operates long long high speed services to the Alps and Avignon which have been a success, although at one train per day to the alps and less to Avignon its not part of the central strategy.

As Eurostar does not need to justify the contruction of infrastructure to reach Geneva, it does not need to obtain a stranglehold market share on the route and can do perhaps one or two trains per day. I would imagine this is the sort of service they are looking at to begin with. Such a service is looking primarily at the leisure and not-in-a-mad-hurry business markets. I think its sensible to try it.

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i'm surprised with 320 as well. there are many articles which say how costs rapidly rise for each km/h above 300. at all, are there any lines in France (except Paris - Strasbourg) made for speeds over 300 km/h? equiping the train with limitators for higher speed is the least problem.
The LGV Nord is capable of 350km/h, both track and signalling, though operation is not above 300km/h at the moment. AFAIK LGV Mediterranee is the same. As I mentioned in the other thread the French realised it was an error to not have a bit of future speed increases available - LGV Sud-Est was built for 270km/h and this quickly became a hindrence. Now much of it has been sped up, some bits to 320km/h, but due to alignment limitations there are still some 270km/h sections apparently.
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Old October 8th, 2010, 12:07 PM   #898
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New livery looks also great

Its head looks like a wasp...
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Old October 8th, 2010, 12:24 PM   #899
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Its head looks like a wasp...
Wasps and bees pick the same conspicuous colour scheme.

Do any trains look like ladybirds?
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Old October 8th, 2010, 12:46 PM   #900
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What problem with platforms do you expect? The train is 400m long, which is the maximum length allowed under the interoperability standard. Most major railway stations in Europe have platforms long enough for these trains. Both DB, SNCF and SBB already run trains of that length.
aren't British platforms due to height of cars (wagons?) higher?
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