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Old October 17th, 2010, 09:03 PM   #961
Gag Halfrunt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maarten Otto View Post
Recently I heard a rumour about Argentina to build a HSL and that they were likely to shortlist Siemens with their Velaro design.
The project has been been suspended because of the global economic crisis, but the Buenos Aires-Rosario-Córdoba HSR line was going to have Alstom TGV Duplex trains. Alstom won against bids from CAF and Siemens.
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Old October 18th, 2010, 01:28 PM   #962
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Livery of the New Eurostar E320:



Eurostar Leisure Select Seats:

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Old October 18th, 2010, 07:41 PM   #963
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Somewhat related:
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ICE Channel Tunnel trials a success says Eurotunnel
Monday, October 18, 2010

THE CEO of Eurotunnel, Mr Jacques Gounon, says the evacuation trials conducted in the Channel Tunnel last weekend with two ICE trains belonging to German Rail (DB) "were more successful than we expected." Gounon says two trials to evacuate 300 people from the trains were conducted. The more complicated evacuation involving people moving from one train to the other was completed in 20 minutes, while what he describes as the "more obvious way to evacuate a train" through the doors to the cross passages took just 15 minutes. The requirement is to evacuate a train within 90 minutes.

Gounon says the trials were witnessed by independent observers from the Channel Tunnel Intergovernmental Commission (ICG), High Speed One (which operates the high-speed line from the Channel Tunnel to London), and Eurostar. "We have been working with DB for several months to understand their needs and to acquaint them with the constraints of operating in the Channel Tunnel," Gounon says.

Gounon points out that the fastest time to evacuate a Eurostar class 373 train with about 700 passengers on board during a real emergency last December was 35 minutes. "We plan to conduct an emergency evacuation trial with a Eurostar train next year," says Gounon.
"We have done all the tests with ICE that are needed for us and the IGC," he says. "We are now writing the final analysis of the tests and will report back to the IGC by the end of the year."

As far as introducing trains with distributed traction in the Channel Tunnel is concerned, Gounon says trains must be able to withstand a fire for 30 minutes in order to exit the tunnel. "DB says it will have no problem meeting that requirement with ICE," he says.

Gounon points out that Eurotunnel will complete the construction of two 800m-long safety platforms in each running tunnel as a cost of €20 million by the end of 2011. These will have sprinklers to dampen fires and more flexibility to evacuate passengers.
Source: International Railway Journal
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Old October 18th, 2010, 11:22 PM   #964
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is it not slightly worrying that a train carrying 700 people takes 35 mins to evacuate, while a stadium in the uk with 80000 people inside takes 8 minutes...
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Old October 19th, 2010, 12:57 AM   #965
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Depends on how you look at it. The stadium is on ground level and has more exits, where the Channel Tunnel only has an overpass to the service tunnel every 375 meters. This means that most of the passengers will have to leave the train (through doors much smaller than that of a stadium), walk to the emergency doorways, probably stay in line for a bit, and find out where to go once inside the service tunnel.
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Old October 19th, 2010, 10:41 AM   #966
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KICK... and not without reason....

It's happening in 2013...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11567753
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Old October 19th, 2010, 10:44 AM   #967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariaclarie View Post
Livery of the New Eurostar E320:



Eurostar Leisure Select Seats:
Those are "the old livery, and the old tatty seats". please try again....
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Old October 19th, 2010, 01:37 PM   #968
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I think mariaclarie is a vaguely sophisticated spammer who pastes things from Wikpedia vaguely related to the thread. His/her sig is an advertisement.
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Old October 19th, 2010, 04:43 PM   #969
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Quote:
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KICK... and not without reason....

It's happening in 2013...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11567753
Very interesting, I had a feeling that the front row seats would be left out of the Eurotunnel specced trains, although I would be tempted to use them even if they charged a premium. The presenter seemed optimistic about trains to Madrid and Rome, which would just take too long, although a sleeper train would be good.

On another note, what are the barriers to running slower trains through the tunnel? A sleeper service would be good even if it wasn't that fast from various parts of Europe.
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Old October 19th, 2010, 04:50 PM   #970
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Very interesting, I had a feeling that the front row seats would be left out of the Eurotunnel specced trains, although I would be tempted to use them even if they charged a premium. The presenter seemed optimistic about trains to Madrid and Rome, which would just take too long, although a sleeper train would be good.

On another note, what are the barriers to running slower trains through the tunnel? A sleeper service would be good even if it wasn't that fast from various parts of Europe.
Well, Rome isn't that far away if you consider the Chinese are planning a Beijing - London service.
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Old October 19th, 2010, 05:00 PM   #971
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Sleeper crappy trains aren't slower because they are sleeper cars, but because they are crappy or, when not, they are held back for night freight and maintenance traffic. It is a so 1970's thing, hope they never circulate in the Chunnel.

Madrid is far for a high-speed service. 7h30 at least if and when Marseille-Barcelona HS connection is compleeted, flight takes less than 1h30.
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Old October 19th, 2010, 07:23 PM   #972
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Sleeper crappy trains aren't slower because they are sleeper cars, but because they are crappy or, when not, they are held back for night freight and maintenance traffic. It is a so 1970's thing, hope they never circulate in the Chunnel.

Madrid is far for a high-speed service. 7h30 at least if and when Marseille-Barcelona HS connection is compleeted, flight takes less than 1h30.
Obviously they wouldn't be HSTs otherwise they would be quite expensive, although they did build many as they didn't anticipate flying to become so cheap. I think there is a reasonable market for longer duration trains if you just make them a pleasant experience, be that with sleepers or just giving a decent service with standard trains. I don't think sleeper trains will die out, but there will always be people who would rather be on a train than a plane and a service there for them.
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Old October 19th, 2010, 07:42 PM   #973
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A daily service from London or Amsterdam to Barcelona could well be possible end economically sensible. All you need is a high capacity, comfortable and fast train with WiFi, comfort zones, good service Infotainment system and all that for a good price.

There is a weekly service from Amsterdam to Marseille and it has been running for years... so there is a market. In winter you could run a good service to ski resorts.
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Old October 19th, 2010, 08:10 PM   #974
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Sleeper crappy trains aren't slower because they are sleeper cars, but because they are crappy or, when not, they are held back for night freight and maintenance traffic. It is a so 1970's thing, hope they never circulate in the Chunnel.
Night trains are so crap that the Barcelona-Zuerich/Milano trains are often full, even in the 500 € two beds cabins with private toilet.
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Old October 19th, 2010, 08:25 PM   #975
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Obviously they wouldn't be HSTs otherwise they would be quite expensive, although they did build many as they didn't anticipate flying to become so cheap.
Not necessarily. Chinese have pretty brand new CRH sleeper trains - trainset with 13 sleeper cars, 4 berths per compartment, and a couple of seating cars - which are indeed not 350 km/h, but 200 km/h. They run on lines like Beijing-Shanghai, and cover 1463 km in 10 hours. Still cheaper than planes, and popular enough that they are leaving each 5 minutes or so.

Nighstars are sold to Canada, but were they well made to begin with? In any case, would night trains offering 10 hour trip time London-Berlin, London-Marseilles or London-Barcelona be useful?
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Old October 19th, 2010, 08:33 PM   #976
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Night trains are so crap that the Barcelona-Zuerich/Milano trains are often full, even in the 500 € two beds cabins with private toilet.
C'mon, Artesia trains are an oddity. I don't know their frequency on CH-E routes, but Milano-Barcelona runs 3x/week, takes 13 hours and are usually more than 1h late.

The "crappyness" of those trains are not the interior, but their inability to run at the same speeds day trains run.

For Italian speakers, a report of a trip made from hell on an Artesia (Milano-Barcelona) train which was 14 hours late!

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Last edited by Suburbanist; October 19th, 2010 at 08:57 PM.
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Old October 19th, 2010, 08:41 PM   #977
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Barcelona-Milano doesn't take 23 hours but around 13 (ok, I suppose it's a typing error). But travel time doesn't matter since they still carry quite a lot of people. But you apparently hate trains so much that you can't accept that some people use them voluntary in a free market paying a lot of money for travelling slowly...
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Old October 19th, 2010, 08:55 PM   #978
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Barcelona-Milano doesn't take 23 hours but around 13 (ok, I suppose it's a typing error). But travel time doesn't matter since they still carry quite a lot of people. But you apparently hate trains so much that you can't accept that some people use them voluntary in a free market paying a lot of money for travelling slowly...
And those trains even pay for their use of the infra they use, that's not always the case with their bus counterparts.
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Old October 19th, 2010, 08:56 PM   #979
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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Barcelona-Milano doesn't take 23 hours but around 13 (ok, I suppose it's a typing error). But travel time doesn't matter since they still carry quite a lot of people. But you apparently hate trains so much that you can't accept that some people use them voluntary in a free market paying a lot of money for travelling slowly...
Sure! That is fine. They can keep running those trains, though I think they are substandard. At least those international trains are non-subsidized, so it's just a matter of taste (I don't like Snoopy Dog music either, but they can produce, sell and advertise it as much as they want, I just don't buy it).
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Old October 19th, 2010, 09:24 PM   #980
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C'mon, Artesia trains are an oddity. I don't know their frequency on CH-E routes, but Milano-Barcelona runs 3x/week, takes 13 hours and are usually more than 1h late.
That Milano - Barcelona is usually more than 1h late is because the trip ends in Italy. The Barcelona - Zürich train is usualy on time.

I had the opportunity to wittness the incompetence of the Italian railways again yesterday on a Lugano - Milano train. The train arrived in Chiasso (where Trenitalia takes over) one minute late, but because there is some buffer built in the stop there there was no reason why this train should leave Chiasso for Milano late. However for some reason the train left 15 minutes late, and they let the regional train from Chiasso to Milano leave first. So our train ended up running yellows as far as Monza. Than later we managed to make up some time, and arrived in Milano 10 minutes late. (There must be a lot of slack in the timetable. Just imagine how much faster trains could be in Italy just by being more punctual...)
Normally that train arrives in Milano Centrale at 10:50, and leaves again direction Zürich at 11:10. However since we arrived with a 10 minutes delay Trenitalia decided that the train should leave with a 10 minutes delay too. SBB turns trains around in Zürich in 4 minutes, Trenitalia needs 20 minutes to do the same.
I noticed something interesting in Milano. All trains there have departure times rounded to the nearest 5 minutes. So trains leave at 11:00, 11:05; 11:10 etc... There is no train that leaves at 11:02 for example. That points to two things: Timetabling in Italy is not something that is done with any rigor. And the signalling leading in to Centrale must have been unchanged since the time of Mussolini.

Really, the the Ellipsos trains is regularly only an hour late in to Milano is pretty good.
The train itself is excellent by the way. An example of how a night train should be.
(BTW, the last time I flew to Barcelona my flight was 6 hours late, and I finally landed in the middel of the night with no further transportation available, which meant I had to fork over 200 euro for a taxi... )

Last edited by K_; October 20th, 2010 at 01:33 PM.
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