EUROPE | Eurostar and Inter-country Railways

[an-148]

Originally Posted by Booze

I was very dissapointed when I read the article, as it makes no mention of the future and large spanish high speed network

For now, the RENFE didn't sign the Railteam agreement, the same for FS and CP: therefore the respective spanish, italian and portugese networks are not present on the map and in the article. Also, the present members only involved some of their tracks (sometimes even "improved classic tracks" but with international purpose)

The main purpose is to edit a single international (international is mandatory) ticket and booking engine regardless where the ticket has been delivered.
(a kind of "flashback" on former TEE network). A kind of code-sharing agreement like we know them from airlines.

Only the companies that have an agreement to share the codes offer the continuous ticket! The same here, and as soon as one more railway company joins Railteam, her "Railteam dedicated" network will be included in the agreement and the map will be updatad consequently!!!!!!

Europeans can reasonnabily expect RENFE, FS, CP and others to join Railteam.

[eomer]

Will Italy and Spain join Railteam ?

[Booze]

Originally Posted by an-148

For now, the RENFE didn't sign the Railteam agreement, the same for FS and CP: therefore the respective spanish, italian and portugese networks are not present on the map and in the article. Also, the present members only involved some of their tracks (sometimes even "improved classic tracks" but with international purpose)

The main purpose is to edit a single international (international is mandatory) ticket and booking engine regardless where the ticket has been delivered.
(a kind of "flashback" on former TEE network). A kind of code-sharing agreement like we know them from airlines.

Only the companies that have an agreement to share the codes offer the continuous ticket! The same here, and as soon as one more railway company joins Railteam, her "Railteam dedicated" network will be included in the agreement and the map will be updatad consequently!!!!!!

Europeans can reasonnabily expect RENFE, FS, CP and others to join Railteam.

I know, but RENFE doesn't need to sign any agreement until the high speed line arrives to France and Portugal. I guess by that time free competition will just make the same effect.

Regarding that map, the spanish network will be much larger than that.

[an-148]

Originally Posted by Booze

I know, but RENFE doesn't need to sign any agreement until the high speed line arrives to France and Portugal. I guess by that time free competition will just make the same effect.

Regarding that map, the spanish network will be much larger than that.

ok, we all know, but my comments originated in the fact that YOU were disappointed not to see a mention about the spanish network: it was ONLY to explain why

in addition, RENFE joining Railteam, will not AUTOMATICALLY include all the tracks, but only the tracks that can resonnabily be considered by RENFE itself as potentially interesting for INTERNATIONAL traffic.

[an-148]

Originally Posted by eomer

Will Italy and Spain join Railteam ?

bonjour,

we can suppose or at least hope that other companies will join in the near future (I prefer to speak about companies than about countries in that matter, because Railteam is a company's alliance).

In my opinion, FS could sign as soon as they want to, also if there is a need to use older tracks between Lyon and Turin or on the Brenner route or the Swiss routes: the trains will join the Highspeedlines as soon as they can connect to them (simply like Geneva or Bern). Look at ÖBB: they signed the agreement with no highspeedline to offer for now, just with the expected ones; for now Railteam traffic has to be served on regular tracks. SBB/CFF and BLS are also far from having finished all their "mountain base tunnels" but they signed the agreement.

For Spain, I guess that RENFE will consider joining only when there will be a continuous track at 1.435 gauge linking their highspeed network to the French one: so I guess not before 2012!

[FM 2258]

I took the train from Milano to Roma that sped through Piacenza, Bologna and Firenze in May and thought that was a really nice ride. I just never realized it was a "high speed" train. It was going damn fast though.

The train stopped in Bologna and Firenze but the whole trip was less than 5 hours.

[an-148]

Originally Posted by FM 2258

I took the train from Milano to Roma that sped through Piacenza, Bologna and Firenze in May and thought that was a really nice ride. I just never realized it was a "high speed" train. It was going damn fast though.

The train stopped in Bologna and Firenze but the whole trip was less than 5 hours.

yes, when those bullet-trains drive on their dedicated tracks one would never think they drive 300km/h. I used as well the Thalys from Liège to Paris as the ICE3 from Liège to Frankfurt: it's a real Pullman once they drive on the dedicated tracks

[Booze]

Originally Posted by an-148

ok, we all know, but my comments originated in the fact that YOU were disappointed not to see a mention about the spanish network: it was ONLY to explain why

in addition, RENFE joining Railteam, will not AUTOMATICALLY include all the tracks, but only the tracks that can resonnabily be considered by RENFE itself as potentially interesting for INTERNATIONAL traffic.

I know the article is more about competition than explaining the network (damn, I read The Economist every week and they always have the very same approach regardless of what they talk about ^_^) but the map is simply wrong.

Still, I do think the real revolution in terms of network is happening right now in Spain, and for HS trains competition comes after massive investment. Given the fact that the Madrid - Barcelona route is the busiest air link of the world, and taking into account that those 2 cities will be linked (in months) by a line designed to allow constant operational speed of 350KM/h, im am a bit disappointed as it just didn't deserve a line for a not very informed journalist. Having wonderfull trains departing every 15 minutes ( much less in the near future) and connecting the cities in less than 2.5 hours is a direct thread to the air link with a similar capacity.

What I didn't really like about the article is that it almost considers train market itself, while nowadays we really have a mobility market instead. To me the real competition is trains vs planes, and that agreement is just a small step toward full liberalisation and network extension.

[an-148]

totally agree with you

and the track Madrid-Barcelona will be amazing (already now!)

[Coccodrillo]

Originally Posted by FM 2258

I took the train from Milano to Roma that sped through Piacenza, Bologna and Firenze in May and thought that was a really nice ride. I just never realized it was a "high speed" train. It was going damn fast though.

The train stopped in Bologna and Firenze but the whole trip was less than 5 hours.

The high-speed line will open in 2009. Milan-Rome line is in fact divided into three parts:
- Milan-Bologna opened somewhere in the XIX century, but it is a straight line in a plain
- Bologna-Firenze opened in 1934 and permitted quite high speeds for the time (it includes two main tunnels of 18,5 and 7,1 km, or 11.5 and 4.4 miles), trains can reach 180 km/h-110 mph. The main 18,5 km tunnel included an underground station opened to public, but it has been closed in the '60s. It replaced an older and slower single track line opened in 1864 (that is still in use)
- Firenze-Roma opened in the '70s-'80s and is a real high-speed line, permitting 300 km/h-185 mph on some stretches (even if being electrified to 3 kV DC, trains are limited to 250 km/h)

A new Milan-Bologna-Firenze HSL is under construction:
http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/...an-network.gif (dark blue dotted lines, electrified in 25 kV AC)
This line is 78 km in length of which 73 are in tunnels.

[earthJoker]

The NEAT tunnels should be blue in the first map as they will support sppeds upto 250 km/h

[FM 2258]

Originally Posted by Coccodrillo

The high-speed line will open in 2009. Milan-Rome line is in fact divided into three parts:
- Milan-Bologna opened somewhere in the XIX century, but it is a straight line in a plain
- Bologna-Firenze opened in 1934 and permitted quite high speeds for the time (it includes two main tunnels of 18,5 and 7,1 km, or 11.5 and 4.4 miles), trains can reach 180 km/h-110 mph. The main 18,5 km tunnel included an underground station opened to public, but it has been closed in the '60s. It replaced an older and slower single track line opened in 1864 (that is still in use)
- Firenze-Roma opened in the '70s-'80s and is a real high-speed line, permitting 300 km/h-185 mph on some stretches (even if being electrified to 3 kV DC, trains are limited to 250 km/h)

A new Milan-Bologna-Firenze HSL is under construction:
http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/...an-network.gif (dark blue dotted lines, electrified in 25 kV AC)
This line is 78 km in length of which 73 are in tunnels.

Very, very interesting. I noticed we went through some loooooong tunnels between Bologna and Firenze. There also a few tunnels I remember between Firenze and Roma. Also along the route there were quite a few areas where new track was being constructed.

Thanks for the information. It's too bad that the new lines are mostly going to be tunnels. The Italian countryside was the most beautiful I've seen almost anywhere.

[Coccodrillo]

Between Firenze and Roma there are also some long tunnels: 11 km, 9,3 km, 7,4 km, 5,7 km, and some shorter.

[pflo777]

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,...707666,00.html

Transrapid Train Could Get Green Light in Munich

[FM 2258]

That was a cool video. I think more cities should use maglev as a direct line to the airport. I wish they would do that in Austin. Park your car at the maglev station in far north or west Austin and get to the airport in 10 minutes. I think it would be great for the environment as well as convenience. Driving an hour to the airport for a 45 minute flight is ridiculous.

[elfabyanos]

Originally Posted by FM 2258

Very, very interesting. I noticed we went through some loooooong tunnels between Bologna and Firenze. There also a few tunnels I remember between Firenze and Roma. Also along the route there were quite a few areas where new track was being constructed.

Thanks for the information. It's too bad that the new lines are mostly going to be tunnels. The Italian countryside was the most beautiful I've seen almost anywhere.

The Roma-Firenze is an interesting line - called the Direttissima. Although it is now well below the standard required for euro standard 300 km/h due to certain curves, hence the reconstruction in parts.

I quite liked the trains that were designed for it - I saw them about ten years ago when I went from Reggio to Milan and back, they didn't look much like anything else in Europe to my knowledge.

from http://www.italferr.it/english/proje...rm_firenze.asp

Rome-Florence 'Direttissima'


The Rome-Florence 'Direttissima' was the first high speed line in Europe and one of the first anywhere in the world. Designed in the early 1960s and built during the '70s, the line started entering service in 1978. It has a speed limit of 250 km/h and is 253.6 km long, running from Settebagni station to Rovezzano. There are six interconnection points with the existing Rome-Florence line at Orte, Orvieto, Chiuso, Arezzo, Valdarno and Rovezzano.
The construction of the new High Speed lines made it necessary to upgrade the Rome-Florence Direttissima in line with new standards.

[fetg_]

Originally Posted by FM 2258

That was a cool video. I think more cities should use maglev as a direct line to the airport. I wish they would do that in Austin. Park your car at the maglev station in far north or west Austin and get to the airport in 10 minutes. I think it would be great for the environment as well as convenience. Driving an hour to the airport for a 45 minute flight is ridiculous.

Austin is pretty close to it's airport. I think you can get a reasonable time with just a light rail connection, which is cheaper.

[Maxx☢Power]

Originally Posted by pflo777

Nice subliminal advertising. I thought that was illegal?

[DiggerD21]

You mean the posters and brand names in the beginning at the central station? I think they belong to the station and are not intentionally put into this video. Otherwise they also would have shown the Lufthansa Self-Check-Ins completely and not without the brand name.

[Momo1435]

It's not TV or anything, just a promo film, there are no rules.

As for the project, I will have doubts if it's goes ahead, only running maglevs can change that.