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Old November 27th, 2010, 05:57 PM   #1121
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I didn't say they should be obliged to do that, just that I hoped it happened. Optional reservation trains have the disadvantage of creating some conflicts when the train is full and some passengers refuse to shop around for free seats (or no seats at ll) to give up their place to the one who reserved the seats.
The potential for conflicts is however rather low. Normally it is visible at the seat if it is reserved (and from where) and I have never had a problem getting my reserved seat, nor have I had witnesses someone else having this problem.

Allowing passengers without reservations on the train has the advantage of making more money for the railway company, as it increases the value of the more expensive flexible tickets, so passengers are more likely to buy them.
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Old November 27th, 2010, 06:22 PM   #1122
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Neither Amsterdam, nor Rotterdam have the facilities for this, nor is it possible to provide them.



It they intend to compete with Thalys on the Köln - Brussel route it's only logical to open the Frankfurt - London trains to passengers for Frankfurt or Köln to Brussel.
Well take it up with DB then.
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Old November 27th, 2010, 06:43 PM   #1123
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Well take it up with DB then.
Well, DB will first have to take it up with ProRail. I don't see how they will be able to get exclusive access to a platform in Rotterdam or Amsterdam for long enough that watertight passenger screening can be set up.
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Old November 27th, 2010, 10:30 PM   #1124
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I didn't say they should be obliged to do that, just that I hoped it happened. Optional reservation trains have the disadvantage of creating some conflicts when the train is full and some passengers refuse to shop around for free seats (or no seats at ll) to give up their place to the one who reserved the seats.
Those conflicts also happen when a train is all reservational.
Some passengers are stupid and don't read their ticket properly and so they just take a seat where they want.
I had this once on a Eurostar.
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Old November 28th, 2010, 12:22 AM   #1125
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I have read of passengers choosing the right seat number but the wrong carriage; or passengers choosing the right seat number and the right coach but...on the train of the following day
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Old November 28th, 2010, 03:14 AM   #1126
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Maybe Pro-Rail could negotiate with DB and/or HSA and build some underground platforms in Rotterdam. Or they could make a stop in the middle of nowhere where passengers would be unloaded, processed and then boarded to England.
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Old November 28th, 2010, 03:28 AM   #1127
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Good to know they are not planning to allow non-reserved seats to be used on such routes, though it has nothing to do, necessarily, with immigration requirements (you could still book last-minute and pay a fortune for the privilege of travelling on the spur of the moment).

I only hoped they adopted this scheme to all their international IC trains, dropping the possibility of travelling without reservation.
WTF, thats on the the biggest advanatges of intercity rail travel. You can just show up at the rail station and take the next train. If you missed the train because you wanted to have lunch then just take the next one.
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Old November 28th, 2010, 03:41 AM   #1128
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WTF, thats on the the biggest advanatges of intercity rail travel. You can just show up at the rail station and take the next train. If you missed the train because you wanted to have lunch then just take the next one.
One thing doesn't preclude the other. With automated ticket machines, you can change your ticket in 30 seconds - paying the change penalty if your ticket was an advanced-purchase discount or so.

In any case, London-Frankfurt services will not be commuter services, but indeed long-distance services that might be used by some as commuter solutions, more or less like air shuttle operations. Without compulsory reservations, you could end up with a situation in which someone has to travel standing in the aisle for 3 hours. Worse, you could have passengers sneaking into 1st class with 2nd class tickets because 2nd class is full.

Full flexibility exists only with private vehicles, be it a car, a private jet or an yacht
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Old November 28th, 2010, 01:23 PM   #1129
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Yep, free marketeer manipulates the market to suit his own dogma.
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Old November 28th, 2010, 01:41 PM   #1130
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Ultimately I'd like to see a pre-registration system for anyone boarding trains to/from outside Schengen area, more or less like we have such systems for UK-bound or US-bound planes: without previous (harmless, 3 minutes) registration (that will be cross-checked with terrorism international database), you just can't board a plane to these countries, and I think it should be the same for trains UK-bound.
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Old November 28th, 2010, 03:11 PM   #1131
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...and I think it should be the same for trains UK-bound.
It's already the case.
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Old November 29th, 2010, 03:39 AM   #1132
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I have read of passengers choosing the right seat number but the wrong carriage; or passengers choosing the right seat number and the right coach but...on the train of the following day
I've seen the first happen quite a lot to people. In the four times I've used the Eurostar, I've already had about 8 people who asked me whether they were in the correct carriage... Usually they weren't.

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Old November 29th, 2010, 11:05 AM   #1133
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Ultimately I'd like to see a pre-registration system for anyone boarding trains to/from outside Schengen area, more or less like we have such systems for UK-bound or US-bound planes: without previous (harmless, 3 minutes) registration (that will be cross-checked with terrorism international database), you just can't board a plane to these countries, and I think it should be the same for trains UK-bound.
Of course sanity could break out in the UK, and the security theater dropped.
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Old November 29th, 2010, 11:07 AM   #1134
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Maybe Pro-Rail could negotiate with DB and/or HSA and build some underground platforms in Rotterdam.
Underground platforms for a handful of trains a day? They'll be laughing for days if you suggest that. Prorail doesn't build any infrastructure unless it's going to be used by at least a train per hour.
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Old November 29th, 2010, 11:09 AM   #1135
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I've seen the first happen quite a lot to people. In the four times I've used the Eurostar, I've already had about 8 people who asked me whether they were in the correct carriage... Usually they weren't.
The problem is that some people aren't used to paying attention to the carriage numbers while on the platform.
Maybe it would be better to do away with assigned seats, and just do as some low cost arilines do: You just take a seat you fancy. As long as you don't board more passengers as there are seats that is not really a problem.
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Old November 29th, 2010, 11:12 AM   #1136
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In any case, London-Frankfurt services will not be commuter services, but indeed long-distance services that might be used by some as commuter solutions, more or less like air shuttle operations. Without compulsory reservations, you could end up with a situation in which someone has to travel standing in the aisle for 3 hours. Worse, you could have passengers sneaking into 1st class with 2nd class tickets because 2nd class is full.
The thing is that if DB wants to have a chance of making money on these trains they have to carry enough passengers. So they will integrate these trains in their domestic network and also carry Frankfurt - Köln or Köln - Aachen passengers on them. On these routes you can't work with compulsory reservations. Not if you want customers.

Last edited by K_; November 29th, 2010 at 02:25 PM.
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Old November 29th, 2010, 02:10 PM   #1137
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I hate the way the French behave in this matter:

- First they offer AGV
- They lose against Velaro
- Then suddenly they claim only their 20 y.o. TGV fulfills the safety standards

Oh, wait a minute, why did you offer your AGV then, which according to your very own claim, doesn't fulfill the standards either?
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Old November 29th, 2010, 03:24 PM   #1138
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I hate the way the French behave in this matter:

- First they offer AGV
- They lose against Velaro
- Then suddenly they claim only their 20 y.o. TGV fulfills the safety standards

Oh, wait a minute, why did you offer your AGV then, which according to your very own claim, doesn't fulfill the standards either?
Hear, hear, my sentiments exactly
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Old November 29th, 2010, 07:31 PM   #1139
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Quote:
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The problem is that some people aren't used to paying attention to the carriage numbers while on the platform.
Maybe it would be better to do away with assigned seats, and just do as some low cost arilines do: You just take a seat you fancy. As long as you don't board more passengers as there are seats that is not really a problem.
This would be good, I had difficult last year seating myself next to someone as we had to buy different tickets (I needed a combined ticket to bristol, he just wanted london to brussels). In the end we had to buy them simultaneously on different computers asking for adjacent seats.
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Old November 29th, 2010, 11:45 PM   #1140
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There are two separate issues really. One is passport checks, the other x-ray machines.

The x-ray machines are supposedly there to check for bombs. Yet, for what? If anyone wanted to bomb the Channel Tunnel they could just take one through in a car. If they wanted to bomb the London tunnels, they could take one on an HS1 domestic service. They offer no value - yet if they must be used, the Spanish have managed to show how it can be done on any platform with a portable machine.

The question of passports is not going to go away, but one could ask why it has to be done on leaving countries in the Schengen area? It has been suggested that St Pancras is designed for passport checks upon arrival as well as departure. This seems a far more sensible approach and is - after all - the way it is done with air travel.

That's the only way I see Eurostar's mainline European destinations expanding.
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