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Old December 13th, 2010, 01:52 PM   #1161
jwojcie
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Quote:
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Being part of Schegen =/= freedom of movement of EU citizens. Now almost all European countries are on Schengen protocol area, but freedom of movement of EU citizens came long before Schengen. I'm not saying Poles should have to apply for visas to come to France, but that there should be, still, Germans controlling the border, allowing Poles, Slovakians and whomever else is from EU to pass, but keeping illegal immigrants crossing from Central Asia overland at bay.
Border control on CEE borders is rather thight. The main routes of illegal immigration are rather Mediterranean area, with Greece becoming a main entry point recently:

Quote:
FRONTEX has already been helping Greece deal with clandestine migrants who arrive by sea. But it says migrants are increasingly arriving in Greece by overland routes.

It says 90 percent of Europe's illegal immigrants use Greece as an entry point.
http://www.voanews.com/english/news/...105678813.html

I don't know how much it has to do with effectiveness of CEE border securities on EU side. But two things are worth to mention:
1. contrary to popular belief borders between Soviet Union and its satelites were sealed a lot more than current EU borders are, with Soviet Sistiema
as one of the stars of that border system. Basically it were prisons inside a prison. A few years ago this system was still working. I don't know what is the current state of it, I read it was dismantled in many parts. Anyway, regardless of what anybody think about Russian or Belarusian states, one thing they care for is their security forces. For effective border control two sides has to be interested.
2. secondly CEE winters are a big obstacle to human smuggling so no wonder that smugllers prefer warmer south Europe.

Last edited by jwojcie; December 13th, 2010 at 02:09 PM.
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Old December 13th, 2010, 03:19 PM   #1162
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^ Considering the money invested, the controls at Poland's eastern border should be as tight as they have been at the east german border.

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Well, if I had time I could research it, but I supposed that it was common knowledge that illegal immigrants keep arriving in Europe, and that the most traveled route (thanks to the relatively good job of Spain and Italy avoiding boat arrivals by sea) is now an overland Asian-Europe route via Greece and Bulgaria.
The most common route was over Italy and is now over Greece, still with the goal to reach Italy. You recognize that Greece was not part of the Middle European Extension of the EU?
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Old December 14th, 2010, 12:51 PM   #1163
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^ Considering the money invested, the controls at Poland's eastern border should be as tight as they have been at the east german border.
They are even tighter, PL-GER border after we joined EU bcome quite lax, while eastern borders allways where tight and with eu funds they realy upgraded them.
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Old December 14th, 2010, 01:39 PM   #1164
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Border control on CEE borders is rather thight.
What is "CEE" actually. Do you mean Russia?

Anyway. Last weekend a new train service started between Helsinki and st. Petersburg. Immigration restrictions for Russia are even stricter than for the UK. However, for this service doing all border formalities while en-route didn't seem a problem...
So why should it be a problem on the France - UK border?
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Old December 14th, 2010, 01:47 PM   #1165
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Quote:
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What is "CEE" actually. Do you mean Russia?
Central and Eastern Europe
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Old December 14th, 2010, 02:58 PM   #1166
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Central and Eastern Europe
A lot depends on perspective. I grew up thinking about Germany and Switzerland being in "Central Europe"...
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Old December 14th, 2010, 03:19 PM   #1167
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A lot depends on perspective. I grew up thinking about Germany and Switzerland being in "Central Europe"...
According to the strictest implementation of the timezones by lines of longitude (the most neutral dividers, I suppose), you're right.
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Old December 14th, 2010, 08:03 PM   #1168
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Quote:
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What is "CEE" actually. Do you mean Russia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Central and Eastern Europe
Yes. To be more precise eastern part of central Europe and The Baltics.

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Originally Posted by K_ View Post
A lot depends on perspective. I grew up thinking about Germany and Switzerland being in "Central Europe"...
Well, one does learn entire life
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Old December 14th, 2010, 10:23 PM   #1169
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Quote:
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A lot depends on perspective. I grew up thinking about Germany and Switzerland being in "Central Europe"...
And they still are. Geography doesn't change. At least not ones life time.
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Old December 14th, 2010, 10:45 PM   #1170
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guys I have a dumb question. in a train service between Paris and London which side does a train run? The left hand or right hand? France has aright hand drive and Britain left hand?
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Old December 14th, 2010, 11:38 PM   #1171
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guys I have a dumb question. in a train service between Paris and London which side does a train run? The left hand or right hand? France has aright hand drive and Britain left hand?
French railways run on the left side as well.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 12:13 AM   #1172
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Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
French railways run on the left side as well.
Except in the part of the country that was in Germany between 1870 and
1918 (Alsace-Lorraine). Lots of railway construction happened during that
period, and the germans built it their way in that place, with track plans
conceived for right-hand running. When those territories came back to
France, french railway companies, and SNCF afterwards, never bothered
to alter that and trains continued to run on the right over there ever since...
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Old December 15th, 2010, 08:12 AM   #1173
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French railways run on the left side as well.
Not only in France. Trains also run on the left in Belgium, Italy and Switzerland (with a few exceptions).
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Old December 15th, 2010, 10:57 AM   #1174
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Quote:
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And they still are. Geography doesn't change. At least not ones life time.
And because of that simple fact, Central Europe stretches from Germany and Switzerland to the Eastern polish border. Eastern Europe only starts with White Russia and the Ukraine.
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Old December 17th, 2010, 11:29 PM   #1175
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Quote:
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Not only in France. Trains also run on the left in Belgium, Italy and Switzerland (with a few exceptions).
Northern Spain too (trace a line from Plasencia to Madrid and Tudela, north of that line then).
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Old December 25th, 2010, 05:52 PM   #1176
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Siemens, Eurostar ink 700 mln eur train deal - source

FRANKFURT, Dec 3 (Reuters) - Siemens has signed an agreement worth more than 700 million euros ($923 million) to supply trains to Eurostar, a source familiar with the situation said on Friday.

Eurostar, the sole operator of passenger trains through the Channel Tunnel, has traditionally relied on French engineer Alstom for its rolling stock.

Siemens and Alstom declined to comment.

Alstom said in November that a court date had been set for October 2011 in its London lawsuit challenging the fairness of Eurostar's fast-speed train tender, which Siemens won in October.

On Oct. 29, a British court turned down Alstom's request to block Eurostar from finalising the train order with Siemens.

The battle over the Eurostar tender has threatened to drag France and Germany into a protectionist row.

On Nov. 4, the European Commission opened an investigation into the Eurostar contract with Siemens after receiving Alstom's objections.

Deutsche Bahn, which also plans to run services through the Channel Tunnel in a bid to link London directly to Frankfurt and Amsterdam, has a 500 million euro order with Siemens for 15 ICE 3 trains similar to those ordered by Eurostar.
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Old December 28th, 2010, 02:48 PM   #1177
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A victory over protectionism. Maybe that gives the necessary motivation to Alstom to get its act together and start relying more on quality than on political connections. It would be a pity if not.
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Old December 28th, 2010, 06:22 PM   #1178
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and I always thought Alstom had the best coaches in the world
well in my country the best ones are build by them so I has a reason to believe
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Old December 28th, 2010, 06:32 PM   #1179
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Quote:
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and I always thought Alstom had the best coaches in the world
well in my country the best ones are build by them so I has a reason to believe
I don't know if that has anythign to do with coaches but the core issue is technology of HSR. Siemens has been boasting to be "10 years ahead [of the French]" and rightly so. Because Jepanese and Germans have pursued the new generation trains (with traction motors throughout the train as opposed just the locos as in TGVs) for a while now while Alsthom is just going to release their first such train (AGV)... a decade or so behind Siemens and perhaps even more behind the Japanese? They are losers and it looks even more sad when they try to employ politics and protectionism.
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Old December 28th, 2010, 07:43 PM   #1180
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I have to disagree with that, I don't think Alstom is a loser at all. They have their reasons for using loco-hauled high speed trains as opposed to distributed traction (up to the AGV), that doesn't mean they're behind Siemens or anyone. They are still the #1 player when it comes to high speed rail, and have an excellent safety record.

The protectionist row was childish, I agree with that, but I can understand why they did it... it's a huge deal they missed out on. If you had the chance for a huge bonus at work, and the odds are good, and all of a sudden it would go to your competitive colleague... wouldn't you try to find a way to still get that bonus if you saw any opportunity to do so?
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