EUROPE | Eurostar and Inter-country Railways

[tompaw]

I thought the longer the train, the more economical a service is. According to wikipedia, high speed network in Spain uses standard 1,4m gauge.

Anyway, too bad. I really never had so much fun traveling across Europe.

[thun]

No, of course not. Profits rise with the operating grade of a train as it doesn't earn money to move around only steel (and I mean the train, not the cars that might be on it).

With rising petrol costs, car trains could become a more attractive alternative for travellers despite the fact that they aren't cheap either.

Regarding an expansion of the network: Expanding into Spain is problematic, as there's the gauge change (and RENFE wouldn't let run those trains on the HSLs). The main problem is, that on most routes occupation heavily depends on the season (as the typic user would be people going to summer holidays). It's not that easy to run such services economical during the winter season, and introducing special winter services (e. g. to ski resorts in the Alps) isn't a perfect option because those routes would be too short to compete with the car.

[K_]

Originally Posted by thun

No, of course not. Profits rise with the operating grade of a train as it doesn't earn money to move around only steel (and I mean the train, not the cars that might be on it).

With rising petrol costs, car trains could become a more attractive alternative for travellers despite the fact that they aren't cheap either.

Regarding an expansion of the network: Expanding into Spain is problematic, as there's the gauge change (and RENFE wouldn't let run those trains on the HSLs). The main problem is, that on most routes occupation heavily depends on the season (as the typic user would be people going to summer holidays). It's not that easy to run such services economical during the winter season, and introducing special winter services (e. g. to ski resorts in the Alps) isn't a perfect option because those routes would be too short to compete with the car.

The biggest problem however is a rolling stock tax France recently introduced that makes seasonal services impossible to run profitable.

[437.001]

Hi there, the tunnel-boging machine that is boring the tunnel under Girona fro the HLS Barcelona-Girona-Figueres-Perpignan will finish its job on Tuesday.

Works for the new HST station in Girona will start, then.
The HST tunnel under Barcerlona is rather advanced too, but works in Barcelona-Sants station will be rather heavy and complex, and might involve cuts in the rail service.

I don´t know about the other tunnel, the one between Montcada and Trinitat in northern suburban Barcelona.

It looks though, that the HSL will be finished in time (this time! ).

[NordikNerd]

I recently travelled the night train Hamburg-Basel with CNL. It's a rather slow night train, it stops several times in the night probably because they want to give people a chance to sleep.

[Suburbanist]

CNL is a substandard travel service IMO. But it has its fans. It shuffles cars a lot overnight, resembling an operational paradigm that was abandoned in favor of connections in comfortable stations.

[hoosier]

Originally Posted by thun

Regarding an expansion of the network: Expanding into Spain is problematic, as there's the gauge change

That problem doesn't exist on the new Perpignan-Figueres HSL that will open soon. Both the AVE and TGV run on the same gauge tracks.

[Suburbanist]

Originally Posted by thun

The main problem is, that on most routes occupation heavily depends on the season (as the typic user would be people going to summer holidays). It's not that easy to run such services economical during the winter season, and introducing special winter services (e. g. to ski resorts in the Alps) isn't a perfect option because those routes would be too short to compete with the car.

The transporting cars are not that expensive. HEre in Netherlands, they sit idle on 's-Hertogenbosch 8 months per year at an open depot.

[sekelsenmat]

Originally Posted by Suburbanist

CNL is a substandard travel service IMO. But it has its fans. It shuffles cars a lot overnight, resembling an operational paradigm that was abandoned in favor of connections in comfortable stations.

How do you propose that I sleep the entire route if I have to make a connection in the middle?

[Gadiri]

Demonstration high speed freight train links Lyon and London

21 March 2012

EUROPE: The vision of a network of high speed freight trains carrying express parcels and other premium consignments across Europe moved a step closer on March 21, when a demonstration train from Lyon Saint-Exupéry and Paris Charles-de-Gaulle airports arrived at London's St Pancras International station.

The trial run was organised by members of the EuroCarex consortium, which includes SNCF, Eurotunnel, Air France, the French post office La Poste, FedEx and airport operators in Paris, Amsterdam, Liège and Lyon. The UK element was co-ordinated by Eurotunnel subsidiary GB Railfreight and High Speed 1 Ltd, which holds the concession to operate the high speed line between London and the Channel Tunnel. Loading and unloading was handled by SNCF Geodis subsidiary Geoparts Rail Solutions.

The aim is to start commercial services in 2017, with a London terminal probably located near Barking. Discussions are underway with Alstom and Siemens for a fleet of 25 trainsets.

Operations would start with premium express traffic, but the consortium envisages that it could be expanded to handle more traditional freight in future.

The original Cargo Rail Express project was launched in 2006, following a UIC-led study into the European express freight market. In 2008 the reformed EuroCarex consortium signed a memorandum of agreement aiming to start commercial services in March 2012, and opened negotiations to acquire an initial fleet of eight dedicated high speed freight trains at a cost of €625m. These were to be designed to carry modular loads similar to airfreight containers, but the project was delayed by the economic downturn.

In the absence of dedicated rolling stock, the demonstration run to London was operated by set 951, one of the three dedicated TGV trainsets which La Poste has been using to carry mail between Paris, Mâcon and Cavaillon since 1984. This has a capacity for 120 tonnes of parcels, equivalent to seven articulated lorries or seven Boeing 737 aircraft.

The train left Lyon Saint-Exupéry at 16.42 on March 20, arriving at St Pancras the next morning following a stop to load extra cargo at Roissy-Charles-de-Gaulle.

Greeting the arrival of the train in London, French MP and EuroCarex Chairman Yanick Paternotte said 'I am delighted that today's test over the European high speed rail network clearly shows the interest which strategic players in the logistics field - airports as well as rail operators - have in linking their infrastructures to key European economic centres.'

EuroCarex believes that its Express Rail network of high speed freight trains could provide next-day delivery between European hubs with a carbon footprint lower than the current mix of air and road, offering a viable alternative to rising fuel prices and the environmental constraints which limit the number of night flights.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/nc/new...nd-london.html

[KingNick]

Pointless. It doesn't matter if it takes a parcel 2 or 5 hours from A to B.

[krnboy1009]

^Yea, and long haul mails are sent by planes anyway.

[KingNick]

Originally Posted by krnboy1009

^Yea, and long haul mails are sent by planes anyway.

Exactly. Freight trains are not long and slow for no reason.

[XAN_]

Mail and freight are completely different stories. There's enough of time-sensetive goods, which can make HSR-Mail feasible.

Also, if they managed to introduce overnight mail train, than they may try overnight passenger HSR (not sure if it be profitable, but technically it's possible!)

[Suburbanist]

Overnight high-speed passenger trains are not feasible IMO. That would require an immense amount of space to provide sleepers for everyone. Then, it becomes faster just to fly if the distance is long enough (say 1500km) to warrant a 6h travel-time night train.

[K_]

Originally Posted by Suburbanist

Overnight high-speed passenger trains are not feasible IMO. That would require an immense amount of space to provide sleepers for everyone. Then, it becomes faster just to fly if the distance is long enough (say 1500km) to warrant a 6h travel-time night train.

I think overnight medium speed passenger trains (200 kph) make sense though. And you can mix different classes of accomodation. People sleep in airline and bus seats, so there is still a market for couchettes. Sleepers will have about 30-40 people per car, couchettes will have sixty. So you can still have 400-500 passengers on a 400m train.

And flying will become more expensive in the future, as fuel prices rise.

[chornedsnorkack]

Originally Posted by Suburbanist

Overnight high-speed passenger trains are not feasible IMO. That would require an immense amount of space to provide sleepers for everyone. Then, it becomes faster just to fly if the distance is long enough (say 1500km) to warrant a 6h travel-time night train.

Planes do not provide sleepers for everyone, either.

[makita09]

Originally Posted by KingNick

Pointless. It doesn't matter if it takes a parcel 2 or 5 hours from A to B.

Well obviously the experience of France shows that it does.

[Suburbanist]

Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack

Planes do not provide sleepers for everyone, either.

A Helsinki-Lisboa flight doesn't take 7h...

[K_]

Originally Posted by Suburbanist

A Helsinki-Lisboa flight doesn't take 7h...

But some people travel Helsinki - Lisboa by bus or car...