daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old March 23rd, 2012, 07:09 PM   #1401
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21258

Trains are also a target for terrorism, because safety controls are bad (no x-ray, no body scanner, no profiling and no API)
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old March 23rd, 2012, 07:15 PM   #1402
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 768

Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
Moscow-Pyonyang would be a dream voyage for me. Any travel agencies dealing with this route ?
Someone did that: http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2012, 07:23 PM   #1403
NordikNerd
Rail & Road traveller
 
NordikNerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Linköping
Posts: 2,748
Likes (Received): 1408

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Trains are also a target for terrorism, because safety controls are bad (no x-ray, no body scanner, no profiling and no API)
When travelling from Barcelona to Béziers, they actually had a safety control at Barcelona Sants. First time I have experienced that on a railway station.

But did they have security checks at the stations in Girona or Port-Bou ? I don't think so.

Nevertheless, trains are not on the top of the priority list of the Al Qaida.

I prefer trains because I don't feel comfortable traveling in a metal cylinder 10.000 m up in the sky. If a train malfunctions it stops, if an airplane has a failure it can also stop, but if it does that over the Atlantic Ocean you're in trouble.
NordikNerd no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2012, 07:27 PM   #1404
Jonesy55
Mooderator
 
Jonesy55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Floreat Salopia
Posts: 14,205
Likes (Received): 20333

If you are crossing the Atlantic ocean train isn't really an option
Jonesy55 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2012, 08:49 PM   #1405
XAN_
Registered User
 
XAN_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,034
Likes (Received): 760

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Trains are also a target for terrorism, because safety controls are bad (no x-ray, no body scanner, no profiling and no API)
Goverment should fight with terrorism, instead of creating security theater around public services. Security control on planes and partialy ships are make sence to some extent - they are autonomous and may be dangerous to land/shore infrastructure and people (09.11, yeah). But trains are bound to the track, and can easily be stopped if not but temotecontrol, then buy deenergising cayenary, or by derailing a train. If needed, special forces may acces a train much easier.
Given this, security cheks on railway systems actully helping terrorist, whose target is to render economic, transport and social state of a given country either to a collapse or to a major slowdown.
Ah, and one can always bomb a qeue before the security control that was done in Moscow, for example.
Of course there is a single example of security on rail and buses that actually worked - Israel one. I have read some stories from people who worked here - that was some hard-style paranoidal security with bizzare checks of everyone, even just in the middle od the street, rendering everyday live of citizens rather uncomfortable, but it worked! So if some govermnbt want real security, not an illusion of it, that goverment should introduce national wide security system, not only transportation one, but including shoping malls, all cultural/entertaiment venues, etc. Securing one train, ten trains, hundred ot even all of them are useless - terrorist will just bomb something else.
__________________
"I'm lost but still I know//There is another world"
-H. Kürsch, 1995
"Well, we all know there's no other side"
-H. Kürsch, 2002
XAN_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2012, 03:45 AM   #1406
Gag Halfrunt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 719
Likes (Received): 27

Or a terrorist could go to a railway line in the countryside and plant a bomb or an object that will make the train derail. Unless the track is completely inaccessible, that would surely be the easiest option.
Gag Halfrunt no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2012, 03:54 AM   #1407
krnboy1009
Registered User
 
krnboy1009's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 1,662
Likes (Received): 169

Derailing tracks wont kill thousands of people. Maybe hundreds AT WORST.
krnboy1009 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2012, 07:59 PM   #1408
Rohne
Schwarzkutte
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Franconofurd
Posts: 831
Likes (Received): 361

Yesterday, the new TGV line Marseille - Frankfurt opened. Should be the first one that doesn't serve Paris.
Rohne no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2012, 08:18 PM   #1409
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 768

It's just a new train pair a day that doesn't serve Paris, on existing infrastructure, like many others.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2012, 08:45 PM   #1410
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21258

Still interesting. While France improve direct connections, Switzerland and Germany slow down international traffic requiring or forcing additional stops for intl. trains running there.

For instance, we still don't have a Paris-Berlin train that doesn't stop in the Rhur area....
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2012, 08:51 PM   #1411
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 768

Because only a fool could think that 400 people's interest should have priority over 40.000 people's one.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 25th, 2012, 04:13 AM   #1412
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

Skipping the Ruhr area would be a silly thing to do...
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 25th, 2012, 12:28 PM   #1413
Momo1435
-----アンジュルム-----
 
Momo1435's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: アルフェナンデンライン
Posts: 35,282
Likes (Received): 63149

It just a shows again that the geography of France and Germany are very different, which is reflected in both high speed networks.

With a Paris - Berlin service, you have to take into account that it uses both networks. The German network is based on more stops in several urban areas on the route, therefor the DB won't make it non-stop in Germany. Unless the passenger numbers will increase dramatically in a short time a non-stop service is simply not viable.

Only if a private operator, or the SNCF decided to start such a service it can be possible, but I don't see that happening in the near future.

It's also not comparable to the airline industry, even there the market between the 2 cities isn't that big. Tomorrow there will be 13 flights from Berlin to Paris with a total of 2190 seats. And almost half of the seats is by Air France, for them these flights are mostly feeder flights to their intercontinental network. With a flight time of 1:45 it's also still fast enough to beat the train time even if the service was nonstop.
__________________
Support your Idols
キタ ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━ ฅ(๑⊙д⊙๑)ฅ!! ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━!!!
Japan Projects & Construction
Momo1435 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 25th, 2012, 01:11 PM   #1414
NordikNerd
Rail & Road traveller
 
NordikNerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Linköping
Posts: 2,748
Likes (Received): 1408

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Still interesting. While France improve direct connections, Switzerland and Germany slow down international traffic requiring or forcing additional stops for intl. trains running there.

For instance, we still don't have a Paris-Berlin train that doesn't stop in the Rhur area....
In 2009 I travelled with the Berlin (Sudkreuz)-Paris Est night train.

This train did not go through the Ruhr area but via Hannover-Kassel-Saarbrucken-Metz-Paris.
NordikNerd no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 25th, 2012, 01:52 PM   #1415
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21258

Oh, I was thinking of a daytime high-speed service.

But maybe the Hannover-Aaachen-Bruxelles would be quicker for a non-stop service
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2012, 01:52 PM   #1416
NordikNerd
Rail & Road traveller
 
NordikNerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Linköping
Posts: 2,748
Likes (Received): 1408

I recently travelled to Florence, Italy with the night-train Munich-Rome. This was after a long journey from Linköping via Copenhagen-Flensburg-Hamburg-Munich. Why fly ? You don't see anything but clouds !!

The train Munich-Rome is very convienient. Leaves Munich at 7 in the evening and arrives in Rome the next morning at 9.30 (I think). I hopped of the train in Florence at 6.30 which gave less time for a longer sleep, but those who continue to Rome get all the night sleep they need. I sleep quite well at night trains, but it's relaxing if you have a mp3-player with some calm music to get into sleep with. Also a headache-pill may come in handy.

This was an international train, mostly german passengers and a group of excited young americans doing their eurotrip. Very few italian passengers.

image hosted on flickr

Departure Munich
image hosted on flickr

Arrival in Florence

Last edited by NordikNerd; July 13th, 2012 at 02:00 PM.
NordikNerd no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2012, 07:49 PM   #1417
33Hz
Registered User
 
33Hz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 436
Likes (Received): 47

What's the real story with the delay of DB services to London? It was supposed to be 2013 but got delayed to 2015 supposedly due to component supply problems in making the new trains. Yet other Velaro D sets are entering service, so how can the components be delayed?

You would think that it would be in DB's interest to use one or two to get a service to London running before Eurostar starts theirs in 2014.
33Hz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2012, 09:25 PM   #1418
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

The problem is twofold: Siemens has had issues with component supply, causing the delay for domestic services and services to and from the neighboring countries. However, for operation in the channel tunnel and in England additional components (related to safety systems) need to be ordered and fitted onto the trains. Apparently DB has not yet ordered these components.
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2012, 08:01 AM   #1419
K_
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,744
Likes (Received): 243

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
The problem is twofold: Siemens has had issues with component supply, causing the delay for domestic services and services to and from the neighboring countries. However, for operation in the channel tunnel and in England additional components (related to safety systems) need to be ordered and fitted onto the trains. Apparently DB has not yet ordered these components.
It could also be that DB is waiting to see what happens with the Channel Tunnel safety requirements. There is actually no reason why those safety rules should be any different than those used for other long rail tunnels, and it might be that soon some of the requirements might be removed.
K_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2012, 08:29 AM   #1420
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

DB isn't going to rest on their laurels as long as there is no direct ICE-train from Amsterdam to London and back. According to their original planning, the service was supposed to be operation in 2013 - they announced it even before Eurostar announced their planning (2014). Deutsche Bahn wanted to be the pioneer, linking Germany and The Netherlands to the UK by rail, in response to the liberalisation of the international railway market.

Now Eurostar is going to be the first major railway company to create new international connections, with fancy new trains (e320). This is a huge blow to DB.

Yes, the Channel Tunnel safety regulations are very strict - but DB already managed to break through some of them! A few years ago, DB held trials with two connected ICE-3 sets. Evacuation scenarios were practiced in the tunnel, and were a success. The trains traveled through the channel tunnel on their own power (at 40 km/h). As a result of these tests, the Intergovernmental Commission for the Channel Tunnel relaxed some of the security measures:

- Trains no longer need to be able to split halfways (like Eurostar trains)
- Distributed traction is now allowed

However, minimum train length is still set to be 375 metres, that's why DB plans on coupling the trains: one half going to Frankfurt, the other to Amsterdam. Eurostar will send their 400 meter long e320 trains to Amsterdam or Geneva.
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium