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Old August 14th, 2012, 12:55 AM   #1421
33Hz
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If Siemens needs to order additional components for the Velaro D to make it compatible with the Channel Tunnel regulations, then surely the same components will be needed for the Eurostar Velaros? So how are they still on target for a year earlier?

And is there really a market for direct, 400m, 900 seat trains from London to Geneva? It's a trip I've done, but it's a real slog and even with the Paris bypass would be 5 hours.
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Old August 14th, 2012, 01:23 AM   #1422
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To my knowledge, Deutsche Bahn initially ordered the Velaro D trains without the additional components needed for the UK and the Chunnel. Eurostar immediately ordered the trains for cross channel operation into NL, BE, FR, DE, UK and CH, so including the components needed (think of mounting some antennas and adding some chips) .

For the e320, the installation of these components is part of the assembly line. For the Velaro D the assembly line was already in place, modification of an operational assembly lie is virtually impossible as it would mean introducing differences between trains that are supposed to come off the same assembly line. Therefore, these components need to be retrofitted onto the trains.

The question: is there a market? Appearantly, Eurostar thinks there is. If the seats are comfortable enough, the service level is adequate, the service is reliable (i.e. good punctuality scores) and the internet connection is fast enough (the trains will be fitted with Wi-Fi), passengers might be tempted to choose Eurostar as opposed to the aircraft for a trip to London. Think of it: most airports aren't located conventiently near cities (exception being Amsterdam Airport Schiphol), so time is lost during travel to the airport. Park the car or leave the train, walk towards the check-in gates, drop off your bags, wait, wait, board, taxi, fly, land, wait, wait, collect bags, head from the airport back to the city centre. Usually a lot of time is lost during waiting at the airport and travelling through and from the airport.

A train is more convenient as it brings you straight into the heart of the city. This saves a lot of time... from the railway station it's usually a short ride (by public transport, taxi, or getting picked-up by a friend) to the final destination. Meanwhile, people can relax, or remain productive throughout their trip.
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Old August 14th, 2012, 01:29 AM   #1423
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But a 2 year delay just to retrofit a few sets? It seems like something else is going on.

Or are all the Velaro Ds late? I read somewhere they have started to go into service.
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Old August 14th, 2012, 09:32 AM   #1424
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All Velaro D trains are delivered late because of supply issues at Siemens. This is independent of the plans for London.
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Old August 14th, 2012, 12:40 PM   #1425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
However, minimum train length is still set to be 375 metres [...]
So how it is possible that the Eurostar NOL (North of London) sets were shorter?
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Old August 14th, 2012, 04:55 PM   #1426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
So how it is possible that the Eurostar NOL (North of London) sets were shorter?
Maybe they were designed to proceed the tunnel in pairs, than to decouple in London and finally to proceed to he north to separate destinations?
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Old August 14th, 2012, 07:08 PM   #1427
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No, as two Eurostar NOL sets would be too long (550 to 600 m I guess).
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Old August 15th, 2012, 10:43 AM   #1428
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In june I travelled the international train from Copenhagen, Denmark to Flensburg, Germany.

The international feel is quite absent though. I dare to say that 90 % of the passengers are danish, I saw a few germans entering the train at Kolding though. After Tinglev there were few passengers left.



This dieseltrain is actually a slow regional train with many stops at small stations like Vojens, Lunderskov, Tinglev.
image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr

X2000-The swedish express train. This type of trainset was tested on the US. East Coast in 1993
But Amtrak decided to choose the Acela instead.
P6152003 by image hosted on flickr
[/url]
Copenhagen Main Station-The second busiest in Denmark
image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

Slagelse
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Flensburg, Germany close to the DK-border

Last edited by NordikNerd; August 15th, 2012 at 11:10 AM.
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Old September 24th, 2012, 04:50 AM   #1429
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i don`t like those massive thread-mergers in this sub-forum at all, and especially this one, merging eurostar-news with chunnel-operator-news and conventional inter-country-railways news and travel reports, so i have not read all 68 pages to see if the pictures of the final e320 trainsets have already been posted here.
i have to say that the mockup`s design they presented about 2years ago in london was far more appealing to me. the final design looks much more conventional and dull while the mockup had a really striking color scheme.


(c)www.railvolution.net / günther barths


(c)www.railvolution.net / güntherbarths

for comparison, the mockup:

(c)wikipedia photographer Panhard

Last edited by derUlukai; September 24th, 2012 at 05:01 AM.
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Old September 24th, 2012, 05:10 PM   #1430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derUlukai View Post
i don`t like those massive thread-mergers in this sub-forum at all, and especially this one, merging eurostar-news with chunnel-operator-news and conventional inter-country-railways news and travel reports, so i have not read all 68 pages to see if the pictures of the final e320 trainsets have already been posted here.
i have to say that the mockup`s design they presented about 2years ago in london was far more appealing to me. the final design looks much more conventional and dull while the mockup had a really striking color scheme.


(c)www.railvolution.net / günther barths


(c)www.railvolution.net / güntherbarths

for comparison, the mockup:

(c)wikipedia photographer Panhard
The real train looks identical to the mockup and the final colour scheme can be changed easily.

Liveries can dramatically change the shape of a train, so let's not not confuse the train perfomance for a leak of paint.
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Old September 24th, 2012, 06:01 PM   #1431
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ok, sry, maybe my post was a bit confusing. i was only complaining about the livery/colour scheme of the train. the (standard-velaro-)design looks as fine as ever.
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Old September 24th, 2012, 06:04 PM   #1432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joseph1951 View Post
The real train looks identical to the mockup and the final colour scheme can be changed easily.

Liveries can dramatically change the shape of a train, so let's not not confuse the train perfomance for a leak of paint.
I'm pretty sure the op meant the livery. I always suspected that they'd have to change it (off-white + black window band, hellooo DB lawsuit - whether they'd win it or not).

But the shape of that dark blue area is just ugly. I hope they change it.
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Old September 24th, 2012, 06:05 PM   #1433
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Lick of paint. Anyway, it won't be paint, but transfers.
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Old September 24th, 2012, 06:39 PM   #1434
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I totally agree with derUlukai.
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Old September 24th, 2012, 08:20 PM   #1435
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As do I.
At least they could have used that gunmetal grey instead of that awkward blue colour.
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Old September 24th, 2012, 08:42 PM   #1436
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Now it looks like the Dutch SprinterLightTrain with the blue, white and yellow:

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Old September 25th, 2012, 12:08 AM   #1437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derUlukai View Post
ok, sry, maybe my post was a bit confusing. i was only complaining about the livery/colour scheme of the train. the (standard-velaro-)design looks as fine as ever.
Yes, I know.
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Old September 25th, 2012, 12:24 AM   #1438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
Lick of paint. Anyway, it won't be paint, but transfers.
Yes, I just used a "popular" expression.

However, I was trying to point out that, it comes to train performace and comfort, it is important not to confuse the "packaging" with the "content".

In any case, transfers can be applied very easily and quickly.. and more tha once.
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Old September 25th, 2012, 08:29 PM   #1439
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Quote:
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However, minimum train length is still set to be 375 metres, that's why DB plans on coupling the trains: one half going to Frankfurt, the other to Amsterdam. Eurostar will send their 400 meter long e320 trains to Amsterdam or Geneva.
Is Geneva confirmed? Won't the journey times be a bit lopsided, compared to Amsterdam? Lyon seems more balanced. Geneva is about an hour more.

And what is the platform situation at Amsterdam? Will it be Centraal or Zuid? If both DB and e* are planning three trains per day, that's quite a lot of dwell. Especially as they'd probably want similar times of day.
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Old September 25th, 2012, 09:15 PM   #1440
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The longest platform at Amsterdam Centraal is 685m, Amsterdam Zuid currently has platforms that are 395m and 430m long. Both stations are able to accommodate the long trains. But I haven't seen any information about the station they will be using.
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