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Old January 24th, 2013, 09:58 AM   #1521
MarcVD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
There are just 38 Eurostar sets - but this seems to be in excess of requirements, because the six and half North of London Eurostars and also 3 of the 31 Three Capitals Eurostars are now used in French domestic routes.

What are the technical limitations of these 9 and half surplus trains - could they be used to expand services from Great Britain to beyond France?
As far as I know :

- Some sets have the capacity to run under the 1500VDC french catenary.
Not all of them.

- None of them can use the 15kVAC power supply used in central Europe.

- Regarding signalling, they have what they need to run in GB, Eurotunnel,
France, and limited Belgium only (No ETCS or TBL2, so they can't go beyond
Brussels).

- Traction-wise, they have more limited power than the other TGV or ICE sets
so very hilly lines, like Köln-Francfurt, would not be allowed (they don't even
allow Thalys there)

Those trains have been conceived exclusively for the three capitals service
and not much else. That's why E* management preferred ordering more
versatile equipment for their planned service extensions.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 10:32 AM   #1522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Things might change in the future if in the EuroTunnel the TSI specifications will be applied one day (in the alpine base tunnels and in the Seikan tunnel basically any kind of train is allowed, so I don't see why the EuroTunnel should be an exception*).
It's not true that "basically any train can travel" in the Alpine tunnels. There are some fairly strict requirements, which is why you only see the most modern rolling stock on services through the Lötschberg tunnel for example.
However, the requirements are such that they can be met by any train built to current TSI specs.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 12:11 PM   #1523
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Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
The reason that scores of Parisians take the TGV to various destination in western Switzerland and the Thalys to Amsterdam, although the transport time, at 3 to 3 1/2 hours, is way longer than a plane is that you don't have to waste time in an airport. You can walk straight into the train, your luggage in hand, 2 minutes before departure.
Pre-911 if you wished to fly you would figure out if you could get there by train, bus or auto in 3 hours or fewer. If you could, then you drove. If you could not, then you flew.

Now the cutoff is about 5 to 5.5 hours due to increased airport security.

Smaller airports in China insist that you show up 2 hours before a flight and then you sit in the lounge with 15 people in a nearly empty terminal where employees and security outnumber passengers 3:1. It's pointless and stupid and just wastes time. No reason you cannot show up 40 minutes prior, do security, check in and be at the gate 15 minutes before departure when the plane boards.

And most flights in China are late.

So flying to Shanghai from Xi'an makes sense as it's 2.5 hours plus 2 hours in the terminal plus 1 hour to get to the airport.

If you G-Trained it, let's assume the Xuzhou extension is running, it would take about 6 to 7 hours to travel the 1520 kms. You end up at the train station and it takes about the same time to Metro it into the city center.

I have seen figures that for China, more than 1000 kms one should fly, but I think the figure is closer to 1350 to 1500km if an all G-train line is open to the same destination.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 01:36 PM   #1524
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Small airports in Europe are not as inefficient even post 911. I usually leave my apartment about 1 h 15 min before the flight (ca 20 min to get to the airport from the place I live) from the local airport.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 02:24 PM   #1525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Pre-911 if you wished to fly you would figure out if you could get there by train, bus or auto in 3 hours or fewer. If you could, then you drove. If you could not, then you flew.

Now the cutoff is about 5 to 5.5 hours due to increased airport security.
1318 km Beijing-Shanghai can be done in 4:48, so no point in flying.

Beijing-Changsha, 1484 km, takes 5:38. Guangzhou-Zhengzhou is 1442 km and takes 5:26.
Which of these compete with flights?

Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
If you G-Trained it, let's assume the Xuzhou extension is running, it would take about 6 to 7 hours to travel the 1520 kms. You end up at the train station and it takes about the same time to Metro it into the city center.

I have seen figures that for China, more than 1000 kms one should fly, but I think the figure is closer to 1350 to 1500km if an all G-train line is open to the same destination.
1520 km?

I have seen numbers:
Shanghai-Xuzhou - 626 km
Xuzhou-Zhengzhou - 362 km
Zhengzhou-Xian - 457 km
These, however, add up to just 1445 km.

It should take less than 6 hours - like Guangzhou-Zhengzhou, it should take less than 5,5 hours. That if the speed limit is still 300 km/h in 2017.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 02:35 PM   #1526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
For the time being, trains go all the way to Istanbul Sirkeci again. (...)
For my part, i'll wait until those works are completed before travelling this
way again...
The Venice-Simplon-Orient Express and the Danube Express actually did arrive in Sirkeci Station all throughout the season, as the works did not lead to a complete end of services (some local trains also ran on weekends). These works actually have nothing to do with the Bosporus Tunnel, but aim to improve the existing rail line west of Istanbul.
There are plans underway for an interesting new way to travel to Istanbul. MAV and TCDD are currently negotiating about a direct Budapest-Bucharest-Istanbul link which would for the moment terminate in either Cerkezköy or Halkali (west of Istanbul) while construction is ongoing. This train would run from May to September and depart on three days per week and direction. Rolling stock is to be far superior to that used currently on the Bosphore and Balkan Express trains. Let us keep pur fingers crossed they can actually pull this off.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 03:19 PM   #1527
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Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
There are plans underway for an interesting new way to travel to Istanbul. MAV and TCDD are currently negotiating about a direct Budapest-Bucharest-Istanbul link which would for the moment terminate in either Cerkezköy or Halkali (west of Istanbul) while construction is ongoing. This train would run from May to September and depart on three days per week and direction. Rolling stock is to be far superior to that used currently on the Bosphore and Balkan Express trains. Let us keep pur fingers crossed they can actually pull this off.
If they pull this off I'll be on it. Always wanted to take a train to Istambul.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 03:44 PM   #1528
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To which European cities Istanbul has (or had until the recent closures for reconstruction) regular daily train connections? Is there still one to Thessaloniki? If so how long does it take?
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Old January 26th, 2013, 04:06 PM   #1529
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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
To which European cities Istanbul has (or had until the recent closures for reconstruction) regular daily train connections? Is there still one to Thessaloniki? If so how long does it take?
The situation is rather grave. Until 2011 there was a nightly all-sleepers Istanbul-Thessaloniki train (the Dostluk/Filia, i.e. Friendship Express, 13 hrs). It was cancelled by OSE as parts of its savings program. TCDD still plans on starting this train again in the medium run. Now the only long-distance train is the Bosphore/Balkan Express, which departs every night at 22.00. After passing the Bulgarian border, the train split in Dimitrovgrad, with the Bosphore running north to Veliko Târnovo, Ruse, and Bucharest (arr. 18.30) , and the Balkan westwards to Plovdiv and Sofia (arr. 10.30). The Balkan's through coach to Belgrade was cancelled in 2012 due to SZ's lack of diesel engines. The Balkan is in rather bad shape as BDZ cannot provide the appropriate coaches, while the Bosphore consists of old but well kept coaches. Both trains apparently suffer from considerable delays at the moment due to the construction on the line.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 04:28 PM   #1530
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I see... If it takes so long then perhaps it's not worth bothering with it? Thessaloniki is only 600 km away, on an average quality/speed line it would take 5-6 hours.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 07:08 PM   #1531
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On another topic...

I was looking at this map for high speed rail in Wikipedia



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...urope_2011.svg

It's not a terrible map, but clearly not completely accurate. The inaccuracies I see straight away:

- Barcelona-Figueres is finished and in service (270-300 km/h category, right?)
- A Coruna-Oriense is finished and in service (270-300 km/h)
-there is no actual construction between Lion-Turin and Milan-Genoa
-is there something going on between Napoli and Bari? Never heard about...
-no construction on the southern route from Dijon
-no construction in Bulgaria
-is the line in Northern Sweden really 250 km/h?
-I believe the line from Moscow to Nizhny Novgorod is also 200 km/h
-No idea about the status of construction in Turkey

Are there any other mistakes I missed?

Last edited by Sunfuns; January 26th, 2013 at 07:14 PM.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 07:56 PM   #1532
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Yes Botniabanan in Northern Sweden is 250 km/h.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 09:57 PM   #1533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
-no construction in Bulgaria
There is upgrade going on for up to 200 km/h.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 10:21 PM   #1534
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The Bulgarian upgrading is for 160 kmh for usual and 200 kmh for tiliting trains, although there is no immediate plan of using tilting trains. Does this fit the definition of HSR for this map?
The Turkish situation is show with only minor mistakes at the "High Speed Rail in Turkey" map of wikipedia. The main mistake of the trans-European map is that HSR between Istanbul and the Bulgarian border is not u/c but in plan revision phase. The same goes for Ankara-Kirikkale and Afyon-Izmir.
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Old January 27th, 2013, 12:22 AM   #1535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
-there is no actual construction between Lion-Turin and Milan-Genoa
Some access tunnels for these lines (almost completely in tunnel) have already been built, and one for the Lyon-Turin is under construction now. But at least in this latter case I think it's more a political act rather than actual construction, as a response to NO-TAV ("NO-HSL") protests.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
-is there something going on between Napoli and Bari? Never heard about...
As far I know there is a project but no works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo-anders View Post
Yes Botniabanan in Northern Sweden is 250 km/h.
On a single track designed as such, maybe the fastest single track line the world.

The Lötschberg base line is also partially single track and designed for 250 km/h, but it is short and single track to save costs, not because it was planned as such (although I heard that the Botniabanan path has been chosen reserving space for a second track).
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Old January 27th, 2013, 06:44 AM   #1536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
The Bulgarian upgrading is for 160 kmh for usual and 200 kmh for tiliting trains, although there is no immediate plan of using tilting trains. Does this fit the definition of HSR for this map?
It fits into the yellow line
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Old January 27th, 2013, 01:31 PM   #1537
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Then Warsaw-Katowice (partly) and Warsaw-Gdańsk should be marked yellow, too.

I read about the highspeed line in Northern Sweden. It was said to be a huge waste of money, apparently also EU money, since the project was co-financed by European Union. So I've read.
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Old January 27th, 2013, 01:48 PM   #1538
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the Botniabanan is a mixed traffic line, so also for freight trains, and is used to relieve the old single track line (which is still in service, that's why the new line is single track).

What seems more a waste of money is the new Haparanda line, with one train a day...
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Old January 27th, 2013, 02:37 PM   #1539
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is Euromed really being upgraded to 250 km/h? why not 300?
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Old January 27th, 2013, 03:31 PM   #1540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
On another topic...

I was looking at this map for high speed rail in Wikipedia



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...urope_2011.svg

It's not a terrible map, but clearly not completely accurate. The inaccuracies I see straight away:

- Barcelona-Figueres is finished and in service (270-300 km/h category, right?)
- A Coruna-Oriense is finished and in service (270-300 km/h)
-there is no actual construction between Lion-Turin and Milan-Genoa
-is there something going on between Napoli and Bari? Never heard about...
-no construction on the southern route from Dijon
-no construction in Bulgaria
-is the line in Northern Sweden really 250 km/h?
-I believe the line from Moscow to Nizhny Novgorod is also 200 km/h
-No idea about the status of construction in Turkey

Are there any other mistakes I missed?
BTW that map was largely initiated on these forums, about 5 years ago, so we only have ourselves to blame for not keeping it up to date. Although I don't know who adapted it and put it on wikipedia.
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