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Old June 26th, 2013, 11:20 PM   #1741
Slartibartfas
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I had a look at tickets for tomorrow between Frankfurt and Cologne on one side and Paris and Lyon on the other side. The ICE ticket was 69€ and the regular TGV tickets were 92€. Given the longer distance for the TGV prices were roughly similar, even though TGV might be slightly cheaper, especially when you look out for better deals.

Double the price for the ICE sounds a bit like fairy tale to me however. And how anyone could compare the atmosphere in an ICE as plane like, has some interesting perceptions that I could not confirm.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 11:40 PM   #1742
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I don't know about ICE, but Pendolinos (at least those we have in Slovenia) indeed look like planes inside.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 11:54 PM   #1743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axelferis View Post
you know the price you pay a ticket with ICE is perhaps the double of a TGV ticket
I know that ICE inside look like a plane(screens,seats etc...)
But for that price you would prefer to take your car in France

It's a choice: You want luxury, pay it!
And you can't apply this "bling bling" all over europe.
It's not that ICE looks 'luxury' or anything. It's just that it's more up to the standard (common in Japan, China, Taiwan, you name it) of modern trains. TGV simply feels outdated.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 11:56 PM   #1744
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Well maybe it is subjective, but the leg space is hardly comparable ...
TGV is ok, but it feels like a no BS, no frills train. I am sure, costs for a slightly more up to date interior could be justifiable and moderate. After all, most high speed trains around the globe seem to afford it.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 11:57 PM   #1745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Well maybe it is subjective, but the leg space is hardly comparable ...
Can you elaborate?
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Old June 27th, 2013, 12:02 AM   #1746
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ICE is quite cheap with the Spezial Europa fares...
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Old June 27th, 2013, 12:17 AM   #1747
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Quote:
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Can you elaborate?
The leg space between ICE and economy class plane is not comparable. Is there a lot to elaborate? I hope memory does not fool me when I am saying that the former is considerably larger.
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Old June 27th, 2013, 12:27 AM   #1748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
The leg space between ICE and economy class plane is not comparable. Is there a lot to elaborate? I hope memory does not fool me when I am saying that the former is considerably larger.
Sorry I just didn't understand what you were referring to. Of course the legroom in economy class flight vs. train is not comparable. You can put a suitcase in front of you and still have enough space for your legs in a train...
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Old June 27th, 2013, 12:39 AM   #1749
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I think the TGV 1st class is better than ICE's 1st class, and the opposite goes for 2nd class. But currently the best high-speed train in Europe, in my humble opinion, for the passenger experience are the AGVs operated by Italo.
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Old June 27th, 2013, 12:47 AM   #1750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Well maybe it is subjective, but the leg space is hardly comparable ...
I don't know which trains you're talking about, but there isn't much space for legs in our Pendolinos.
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Old June 27th, 2013, 12:51 AM   #1751
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I find it very difficult to make a comparison between a TGV (my most recent experience is on board Thalys) and an ICE (ICE 3 Amsterdam - Frankfurt).

I have a slight preference for Thalys when it comes to seating comfort: the chairs are a bit softer, and the overall atmosphere inside the train is more luxurious thanks to the colours used for the interior. What I like about ICE is the overall spaciousness and the attention paid to details such as the use of wood and chrome.

Thalys and ICE are much better than a Eurostar, its interior looks somewhat old, outdated and feels a bit cramped.

I haven't had the chance to experience other high speed trains so far, my to-do list is getting quite large: Railjet, Frecciarossa, AGV .Italo, the various AVE trains, Pendolino, and some French domestic TGVs (such as TGV Duplex).
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Old June 27th, 2013, 12:56 AM   #1752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
But currently the best high-speed train in Europe, in my humble opinion, for the passenger experience are the AGVs operated by Italo.
Indeed, I agree! (especially the first class aka "Club")
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Old June 27th, 2013, 08:45 AM   #1753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
You can put a suitcase in front of you and still have enough space for your legs in a train...
The only HST I've ever been on where I could have done that is the N700 Shinkansen (seating space is tremendous). In both the ICE1 (seating pitch in the ICE3 is smaller!) and several TGV variants with my heigth (188cm) that wouldn't have fit.

Anyway I see this bad trend developing where seat pitch on newer train models is reduced despite people getting taller. That greatly reduces travel comfort for me and only gains one row of seats on trains that are commonly not even 100% occupied.
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Old June 27th, 2013, 12:02 PM   #1754
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Quote:
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Anyway I see this bad trend developing where seat pitch on newer train models is reduced despite people getting taller. That greatly reduces travel comfort for me and only gains one row of seats on trains that are commonly not even 100% occupied.
But it is exactly when trains are packed full that railways make a lot of money (usually it is when fares, especially last-minute ones, are the most expensive)
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Old June 27th, 2013, 10:03 PM   #1755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post

But it is exactly when trains are packed full that railways make a lot of money (usually it is when fares, especially last-minute ones, are the most expensive)
A wel run railway breaks even as soon as average occupancy is about 30%. No need to pack the passengers like sardines.
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Old June 27th, 2013, 10:06 PM   #1756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
I find it very difficult to make a comparison between a TGV (my most recent experience is on board Thalys) and an ICE (ICE 3 Amsterdam - Frankfurt).

I have a slight preference for Thalys when it comes to seating comfort: the chairs are a bit softer, and the overall atmosphere inside the train is more luxurious thanks to the colours used for the interior. What I like about ICE is the overall spaciousness and the attention paid to details such as the use of wood and chrome.

Thalys and ICE are much better than a Eurostar, its interior looks somewhat old, outdated and feels a bit cramped.

I haven't had the chance to experience other high speed trains so far, my to-do list is getting quite large: Railjet, Frecciarossa, AGV .Italo, the various AVE trains, Pendolino, and some French domestic TGVs (such as TGV Duplex).
Where the ICE wins hands down compared to thecTGV is in the on board catering. The food on German trains is (quite ironically) of a much higher standard then on French trains...
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Old June 28th, 2013, 01:54 AM   #1757
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I don't give a shit about on board catering, but the CRH (ICE3 derivative) brought me from Beijing to Shanghai in 4:45 with more legroom than I have ever had on any plane or train. Even more legroom than a near identical ICE3 derivative I took from Beijing to Tianjin, which was already very comfortable.

I think it's not the manufacturer, but the one providing the service that gets to demand the amount of legroom their passengers get.
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Old June 28th, 2013, 02:24 AM   #1758
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I Will like to know the evolución of the tgv lyria from parís to bruxelles, it has been on service since 1997 time enough to see the evolution of the line, besides there in this time no improvements happened so we ccan see the natural evolution of the line.
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Old June 28th, 2013, 03:13 AM   #1759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
I
I think it's not the manufacturer, but the one providing the service that gets to demand the amount of legroom their passengers get.
Exactly. This can be customized at the clients' request with ease, as with seat filling and texture, on-board information screens, toilets and other aspects.

BTW, apparently some bloggers are quite angry the new ICEs will not have the Panorama lounge anymore.
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Old June 28th, 2013, 10:42 AM   #1760
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The next generation ICE only has Großraum (wide open spaces) and no more compartments. The panoramic view behind the driver is gone as well. In my opinion this is a pity, as these things set ICE apart from other trains.
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