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Old October 13th, 2013, 09:46 PM   #1941
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A flight from Moscow-Paris can only be used by passengers who want to travel between these 2 cities specifically .
Yes, and?
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Old October 14th, 2013, 12:55 AM   #1942
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I was thinking, they should build some new railway from Estonia to Poland.
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Old October 14th, 2013, 01:02 AM   #1943
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I was thinking, they should build some new railway from Estonia to Poland.
Why? Are you planning of using it?
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Old October 14th, 2013, 01:07 AM   #1944
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Isn't that exactly what the are planning? Rail Baltica anyone?
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Old October 14th, 2013, 07:08 AM   #1945
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Why? Are you planning of using it?
No, not personally. But I'd like as much infrastructure built on these buffer areas as possible to reduce possibilities of Russian abuse of its geographical position on the Baltic States.
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Old October 14th, 2013, 07:10 AM   #1946
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Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Isn't that exactly what the are planning? Rail Baltica anyone?
The actual fast Rail Baltica link has been under planning for the past 20 years and probably will be for another 20 before anything goes ahead.

Although the existing connection from Poland to Lithuania is being converted into standard gauge right now. Only problem it will be too slow (120km/h) for decent international passenger services. Still good for freight though.

Last edited by Pansori; October 14th, 2013 at 10:36 PM.
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Old October 14th, 2013, 06:22 PM   #1947
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No, not personally. But I'd like as much infrastructure built on these buffer areas as possible to reduce possibilities of Russian abuse of its geographical position on the Baltic States.
Actually it's Baltic states who a... well, abuse isn't a correct term, I suppose, but they rather profit from Russia lacking all-year-round porta and thus caring freight traffic to there ports or to Kaliningrad. There is no way how Rail Baltica (no doubt, a great project itself, through) can replace profits that Baltic get from Baltic<->Russia and Baltic<->Belarus traffic.
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Old October 14th, 2013, 08:08 PM   #1948
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Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Although the existing connection from Poland to Luthuania is being converted into standard gauge right now. Only problem it will be too slow (120km/h) for decent international passenger services. Still good for freight though.
I didn't know. Which lines exactly?

Map: http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/...tic-states.gif
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Old October 14th, 2013, 08:57 PM   #1949
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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
I didn't know. Which lines exactly?

The broad gauge single track between Sestokai and Kaunas is being joined by an adjacent standard gauge line that will connect to both Kaunas passenger station and the Palemono part of town where a new dual-gauge intermodal terminal is to be built.

In other words this is really just moving the interface of the broad and standard networks from Sestokai to Kaunas.
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Old October 14th, 2013, 10:35 PM   #1950
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Correct. It's done along the existing track. Still at least in theory this would greatly improve passenger transport between LT and PL because you'll be able to take a direct (and slightly faster) train from Kaunas to Warsaw without the need to change trains. It won't be great for business passengers but certainly usable for tourism.
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Old October 14th, 2013, 10:46 PM   #1951
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Originally Posted by XAN_ View Post
Actually it's Baltic states who a... well, abuse isn't a correct term, I suppose, but they rather profit from Russia lacking all-year-round porta and thus caring freight traffic to there ports or to Kaliningrad. There is no way how Rail Baltica (no doubt, a great project itself, through) can replace profits that Baltic get from Baltic<->Russia and Baltic<->Belarus traffic.
Railways have always been and still are a form of political expansion. Or a statement at the very least. For instance why is India worried about China proposing railway links to Pakistan and Nepal?

It's all about physical capacity to have a trade or even a military route if needed. The Rail Baltica project (including whatever is being built now which is not the real Rail baltica) will have that political effect of reducing Russia's political influence in the region. At least in theory.

Last edited by Pansori; October 14th, 2013 at 11:03 PM.
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Old October 14th, 2013, 10:47 PM   #1952
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I think this basic upgrade is very important, as you said, not so much for passanger but for freight service. But also shorter distance inter city trains could benefit.

For international connections, mainly to Poland and possibly Finland, you'd need a higher speed however.
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Old October 15th, 2013, 12:35 AM   #1953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Railways have always been and still are a form of political expansion. Or a statement at the very least. For instance why is India worried about China proposing railway links to Pakistan and Nepal?

It's all about physical capacity to have a trade or even a military route if needed. The Rail Baltica project (including whatever is being built now which is not the real Rail baltica) will have that political effect of reducing Russia's political influence in the region. At least in theory.
You a quite right, but my point that it's Baltic countries, who benefits from 1520 mm network more than Russia - because it's Baltic countries who gets money from freight transit to ports/Kaliningrad, it's Baltic states who impose rules and get revenue from passenger transit from and to Kaliningrad.
Russia is the loosing side in this situation, and not some plotting monster that tries control Baltic states via 1520 railways (they do do plotting thing, but via other tools, like energy supply and import regulations)
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Old October 15th, 2013, 12:45 AM   #1954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
I think this basic upgrade is very important, as you said, not so much for passanger but for freight service. But also shorter distance inter city trains could benefit.

For international connections, mainly to Poland and possibly Finland, you'd need a higher speed however.
The most bizarre thing about international railway connections in the region is that none of the Baltic countries have passenger services between themselves. Even more embarrassing is the fact that such connections did in fact exist in the USSR times and trains were running full of passengers every day and everything was if not perfect then at least it was a functional and useful service.

Current infrastructure could easily allow such trains even tomorrow if needed. However lack of common sense and strategical thinking makes it impossible. Some of the stretches are in a need of upgrading (speeds may be restricted to 80km/h or so in some stretches) but that wouldn't cost too much. It's really a mystery to me why on earth in 20 years they never managed to propose any viable solution to that.
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Old October 15th, 2013, 12:53 AM   #1955
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Yep, because it´s not a Finland/Sweden case, passenger rail could be useful there.
The three countries are growing (well... as much as one can grow these days in Europe ).

Btw, what´s the distance from Tallinn to Helsinki?
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Old October 15th, 2013, 01:06 AM   #1956
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Isn't there a direct train connection between Vilnius and Daugavpils? I don't see any between Vilnius and Riga, and between Latvia and Estonia though.
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Old October 15th, 2013, 01:10 AM   #1957
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That´s exactly the thing that Pansori was complaining about...

Btw, I guess that doing Vilnius-Riga via Svencioneliai-Daugavpils must be quite a detour, I´d do it via Siauliai-Jelgava.
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Old October 15th, 2013, 01:45 AM   #1958
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Yep, because it´s not a Finland/Sweden case, passenger rail could be useful there.
The three countries are growing (well... as much as one can grow these days in Europe ).

Btw, what´s the distance from Tallinn to Helsinki?
The distance is hardly worth mentioning, if it were not water
According to google maps the distance by ferry is 88 km.

Of course for a bridge or tunnel project this is a are rather epic distance.
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Old October 15th, 2013, 01:46 AM   #1959
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Originally Posted by XAN_ View Post
You a quite right, but my point that it's Baltic countries, who benefits from 1520 mm network more than Russia - because it's Baltic countries who gets money from freight transit to ports/Kaliningrad, it's Baltic states who impose rules and get revenue from passenger transit from and to Kaliningrad.
Russia is the loosing side in this situation, and not some plotting monster that tries control Baltic states via 1520 railways (they do do plotting thing, but via other tools, like energy supply and import regulations)
You are right, however that doesn't change the fact that the standard gauge railway improves the options of political and [especially] economic maneuvering for Baltic countries.
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Old October 15th, 2013, 01:48 AM   #1960
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Isn't there a direct train connection between Vilnius and Daugavpils? I don't see any between Vilnius and Riga, and between Latvia and Estonia though.
What do you mean? The map clearly shows that you can go from Vilnius to Riga and all the way to Tallinn if you wish. The route is not very straight but the trains could run on it and, in fact, they did as late as in 1992.

Map: http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/...tic-states.gif

As for Vilnius-Daugavpils there indeed seems to be one. G92 takes 2:10 hours (average speed ~80km/h).

Last edited by Pansori; October 15th, 2013 at 01:53 AM.
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