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Old May 17th, 2011, 06:12 AM   #201
Animo
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Hi guys!

We finally have a San Francisco sub-section in the North American forum and I invite everyone to also participate and contribute there to make it a vibrant section for an incredible city such as San Francisco.
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Old May 17th, 2011, 06:16 AM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
Beyond rush hours, it would appear that SF's Treasure-Island service will be next to nought
There will be all day Ferry Service in addition to the bus service.
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Old May 17th, 2011, 08:36 AM   #203
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This is good news.
Indeed it is.

Might have happened a decade ago...

...But of course San Jose wanted a gold-platted, high-cost subway into downtown & VTA had big financial shortfalls...And then the tech boom collapsed

While their plenty of hurdles ahead, this time around BART to SJ sounds like a more do-able proposal!
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Old May 17th, 2011, 08:21 PM   #204
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I remember reading a proposal for BART lines that would primarily serve the San Francisco and Oakland urban areas.

It's a great read, actually.
http://wilshirevermont.com/2010/05/1...as-dense-core/

I have a question: is eBART going to be the only railbus connector line to the BART network?

Last edited by manrush; May 17th, 2011 at 08:30 PM.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 02:57 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by bayviews View Post
Indeed it is.

Might have happened a decade ago...

...But of course San Jose wanted a gold-platted, high-cost subway into downtown & VTA had big financial shortfalls...And then the tech boom collapsed

While their plenty of hurdles ahead, this time around BART to SJ sounds like a more do-able proposal!
I still think that said subway should get built though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manrush View Post
I remember reading a proposal for BART lines that would primarily serve the San Francisco and Oakland urban areas.

It's a great read, actually.
http://wilshirevermont.com/2010/05/1...as-dense-core/

I have a question: is eBART going to be the only railbus connector line to the BART network?
His idea is interesting, though I don't quite agree with all of his ideas. (Infill stations, D.T. Oakland bypass, SOMA/Van Ness BART corridor and Macarthur BART corridor yes, His Second Transbay Tube, His Geary BART corridor, and College Ave BART corridor corridor no.)
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Old May 19th, 2011, 04:04 AM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FDW View Post
)

I still think that said subway should get built though.

Yeah, I'm for the BART extension into San Jose.

However, not sure how much of it would be in subway with this proposal, As opposed to surface, open cut, aerial, etc.

If its all or mostly subway (like the earlier proposal or the SFO extension) that may turn out to be a bit too expensive given the current regional financial shortfalls.
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Old May 19th, 2011, 04:31 AM   #207
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Would BART have been less expensive if it was electrified with overhead lines rather than third rail?
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Old May 19th, 2011, 10:49 AM   #208
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Quote:
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Would BART have been less expensive if it was electrified with overhead lines rather than third rail?
No, BART's cost comes in large part due to the special rail gauge that it uses, the 1676 mm "Southern/Indian" gauge. Said gauge was chosen back in the heady days when it still assumed that BART would go over to Marin County. The wide gauge was chosen for it's assumed stability in the high winds of the Golden Gate, but alas BART never went over the Golden Gate, thus it is stuck with what it has right now.
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Old May 21st, 2011, 07:26 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FDW View Post
There will be all day Ferry Service in addition to the bus service.
Good. Any clue as to service intervals, frequency?




Quote:
Originally Posted by bayviews View Post
Yeah, I'm for the BART extension into San Jose.
What? along with (possibly dedicated) express tracks? Just what must Bay-area transit advocates be pushing? because nothing necessitates linking those two urban centres over there with a zuped-up metro. I presume the speediness of BART EMUs would make linking the two centres feasible, although linking the two could most definitely be done far better along conventional and thus cheaper means. BART belongs in town (some helluva'n idea to be sending BART outta town )
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Old May 21st, 2011, 07:47 PM   #210
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I wish that the new trains would have different seating arrangements, depending on the service.

That is, one seating arrangement for intraurban/inner suburban services and another seating arrangement for outer suburban/interubran services. Like CityRail in Sydney.
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Old May 21st, 2011, 08:23 PM   #211
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Except that BART doesn't run inner- and outer-suburban services separately. They do a few "turnback"-style services between Montgomery or 24th Street / Mission in San Francisco and some of the outer stations on the Pittsburg / Bay Point line (e.g., Pleasant Hill, Concord, etc.), but nothing that is directly analogous to an inner- vs. outer-suburban dynamic. Keep in mind that there is also a fair amount of uncoupling and recoupling due to variability in train lengths across lines and time periods, so maintaining a uniform car design is desirable from the standpoint of operational flexibility.

With the upcoming fleet replacement in the near future, they will eventually (finally) switch to three-door cars, which will naturally create more standee space surrounding door areas and less seats, but don't expect a drastic change in the seating type... It will most likely remain primarily transverse seating.
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Old May 21st, 2011, 08:27 PM   #212
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Quote:
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Good. Any clue as to service intervals, frequency?
The environmental review and financial analysis of the project assumes ferry headways as low as 15 min during the weekday peak, less frequent during other times of the day and on weekends.
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Old May 22nd, 2011, 02:45 AM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
What? along with (possibly dedicated) express tracks? Just what must Bay-area transit advocates be pushing? because nothing necessitates linking those two urban centres over there with a zuped-up metro. I presume the speediness of BART EMUs would make linking the two centres feasible, although linking the two could most definitely be done far better along conventional and thus cheaper means. BART belongs in town (some helluva'n idea to be sending BART outta town )
I can your point being valid when it comes to the Livermore and East Contra Costa extensions, but the San Jose extension is a whole different animal. For one, it doesn't go through half-undeveloped exurban areas that the other two extensions do. Two, it's really the only politically possible way to get a high quality all-day service operating between the East Bay and the South Bay (Note: I AM NOT SAYING SAN FRANCISCO TO THE SOUTH BAY, nor will I argue that this extension is or should be built to capture that market.). And lastly, political winds in the region are already starting to change towards reorienting BART towards having more inner-city service, given that how the Oakland Airport connector is slowly moving towards being scrapped.
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Old May 22nd, 2011, 02:54 AM   #214
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What of the eBART connector? Is that the new basis for any future suburban/regional BART extensions?
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Old May 22nd, 2011, 04:17 AM   #215
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Quote:
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What of the eBART connector? Is that the new basis for any future suburban/regional BART extensions?
I think it's being considered alongside conventional heavy rail for an extension north of Richmond, but other than that, not really. And besides, I hope that eBART technology or standard gauge rail won't be considered for use on any other future extensions of the system (for standardization's stake).
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Old May 23rd, 2011, 10:16 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
What? along with (possibly dedicated) express tracks? Just what must Bay-area transit advocates be pushing? because nothing necessitates linking those two urban centres over there with a zuped-up metro. I presume the speediness of BART EMUs would make linking the two centres feasible, although linking the two could most definitely be done far better along conventional and thus cheaper means. BART belongs in town (some helluva'n idea to be sending BART outta town )
Its not at the top of my list of projects.

But given that the Bay Area's an interconnected region, would be good to have rail transit service connecting the 3 regional centers. We've already got Caltrain on the Penninsula. But would be good to connect Oakland & San Jose thru the East Bay.

Frankly I'd rather see more in the way of major regional connections, even if it means a bit less of some of these trivial, parochial hi cost, subway to nowhere, local extensions being pushed by a few of the local transit agencies.
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Old May 27th, 2011, 08:43 PM   #217
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No bother, really; besides, I'd safely bet that your area's transport plans trump our own bogged-down ones
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Old May 28th, 2011, 09:57 AM   #218
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No bother, really; besides, I'd safely bet that your area's transport plans trump our own bogged-down ones
Are you kidding? Our plans have been repeatedly delayed and scaled down for BS reasons over the past 10 years whilst our bus service continues to deteriorate at an increasingly alarming pace. Our regions planners could use a good hard kick to the ass, especially in terms of ambition.
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Old May 28th, 2011, 05:10 PM   #219
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No, I'm not (I wish I were...kidding...), although your 'rise-up-dem-busses-rise-up!' over there reminds me of comments I both here and read travelling our own puny public-transport network:
  • How come dedicated passenger's rail off our radar?!?
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Old June 4th, 2011, 02:37 AM   #220
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The Cablecars under repair just as the tourist season perks up.
Had all year to do this. Another great case of planning, muni-style!

Climbing halfway to the stars? You'll need a ride
Natalie Orenstein. San Francisco Chronicle. San Francisco, Calif.: Jun 2, 2011. pg. C.2

(C) San Francisco Chronicle 2011


San Francisco visitors might be left disappointed this weekend as each of the city's three cable car lines will be down for maintenance.

This is the third and final phase of closures for the Powell-Mason and Powell-Hyde lines, which will resume operation Monday. The California line, which has been down since January, "should be back in service by the end of the month," Muni spokesman Paul Rose said.

Would-be cable car passengers can ride shuttles, which cost $2 instead of the regular $5 fare, along the two Powell routes until Monday and along the California route until it is back in service. Muni employees are stationed at key points on both Powell lines.

The Cable Car Improvement Project, which is the agency's first major maintenance initiative in 27 years, will repair electrical and mechanical components of the cars, repave streets, install curb ramps at every intersection and repair sewers along the lines. The California line closure is part of a separate maintenance project.

"We put the word out that this would be happening in January," Rose said. "With each phase we put out a press release, we had signage in the cars, put out advertisements and contacted tourist agencies and held a number of community meetings starting early this year."

Despite the effort to alert residents and travelers ahead of time, plenty of tourists were surprised to find Muni employees and construction workers in place of cable cars.

Marco Heinzelmann is visiting from Germany and has spent the past few days sightseeing in the city. He arrived at the Powell and Market turntable Wednesday afternoon to visit Fisherman's Wharf. "I just wanted to be able to say I had been on a cable car in San Francisco at least once," he said.
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