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Old October 15th, 2012, 02:18 AM   #521
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As a former San Francisco resident, I oppose the Central Subway because it will not address the major transit need of the city. The Geary corridor is woefully overcrowded and served by only buses. For the money, a Geary solution would make more sense than the Central Subway. The northern half of the City is poorly served by rapid transit and the Central Subway won't do much to solve that.
Very well stated. its just a waistful boondoogle that will only suck resources from the rest of MUNI.

And what's been the story since the Feds dumped $942 million on this waistfull boondoodle?

The up escalators at Powell St, MUNI's biggest Sta have been broken for THREE DAYS.

Wouldn't you think that if MUNI had $942 million coming they'd at least have the plain common sense to have gotten the escalators back up & running?

Obviously NOT!
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Old October 15th, 2012, 02:44 AM   #522
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Frisco city proper is itself so tiny compared to its urban neighbours, so surely the system would eventually be linking up most of its municipality, no? Is the term 'central subway' cursed to be some euphimism, is the plan to have the subway amount to just a single route?
Frisco? We are not talking about Frisco, Texas, we are talking about San Francisco.

San Francisco is the second most densely populated City in the United States after New York. Chinatown is the most densely populated district within the City.

As far as the Central Subway goes, there is still a discussion to leave the underground digger to remain underground until a time when more funds can be secured to extend it into the Fisherman's Warf area and possibly ut to the Maria.

I do not how true it is but after the 1989 earthquake and the demolition of the embarcadero freeway, Chinatown, ie: Rose Pak, was promised a subway line to help the loosing of the direct freeway.

I support the Central Subway and encourage all transportation issues in The City.
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Old October 15th, 2012, 03:52 AM   #523
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Chinatown is the most densely populated district within the City.

As far as the Central Subway goes, there is still a discussion to leave the underground digger to remain underground until a time when more funds can be secured to extend it into the Fisherman's Warf area and possibly ut to the Maria.

I do not how true it is but after the 1989 earthquake and the demolition of the embarcadero freeway, Chinatown, ie: Rose Pak, was promised a subway line to help the loosing of the direct freeway.

I support the Central Subway and encourage all transportation issues in The City.
What really does Chinatown stand to gain if this boondogle actually gets built?

One single station at the south entrance of Chinatown?

(Not of course the Rose Pak Station?)

All the other stations will be downtown, in SOMA, & in South Beach & Bayview.

Meanwhile, Chinatown residents will continue to suffer many more years of inconvenice owing to the disruptions of the southbound 30 & 45 lines
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Old October 15th, 2012, 04:26 AM   #524
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Originally Posted by bayviews

What really does Chinatown stand to gain if this boondogle actually gets built?

One single station at the south entrance of Chinatown?

(Not of course the Rose Pak Station?)

All the other stations will be downtown, in SOMA, & in South Beach & Bayview.

Meanwhile, Chinatown residents will continue to suffer many more years of inconvenice owing to the disruptions of the southbound 30 & 45 lines
Don't forget the 8x-Bayshore Express (plus 8AX and 8BX) line too. But I think with the new Chinatown stations, it will relieve the pressure from nearly-always overcrowded 8x, 30, and 45 bus lines.
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Old October 15th, 2012, 09:52 PM   #525
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Very well stated. its just a waistful boondoogle that will only suck resources from the rest of MUNI.

And what's been the story since the Feds dumped $942 million on this waistfull boondoodle?

The up escalators at Powell St, MUNI's biggest Sta have been broken for THREE DAYS.

Wouldn't you think that if MUNI had $942 million coming they'd at least have the plain common sense to have gotten the escalators back up & running?

Obviously NOT!
Well, Muni gets its funds from multiple sources, and that the Powell Street escalators are jointly operated by Muni and BART. I don't mind walking up the escalators; it's just that the funds could be allocated more effectively for more important things later on. Escalator repairs should be a top priority, but if it is at a shared station, shouldn't BART and Muni share the costs?
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Old October 15th, 2012, 09:59 PM   #526
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BART's 40th Anniversary Decals

BART's 40th Anniversary decals are appearing on some of its trains, celebrating the agency's 40 years of service in the Bay Area. Here are some of my latest shots from BART (preview):







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Old October 15th, 2012, 10:41 PM   #527
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Goodness, the front of that second BART train is quite severely in need of refurbishment.
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Old October 15th, 2012, 11:07 PM   #528
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Goodness, the front of that second BART train is quite severely in need of refurbishment.
Oh yeah. Those trains are older than me, and that those will be replaced by a brand new fleet, dubbed the Train of the Future, built by Bombardier. Details can be seen here, with regular updates.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 03:53 AM   #529
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Another afternoon commute with one no-show MUNI 28 bus, another overstuffed 28 bus, lots of angry passengers... yeah, that's MUNI if you know how "tired" its vehicles have become. So far, the bus has like 30 to 40 standees on board a Neoplan AN440 (40-foot) standard bus.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 07:29 AM   #530
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Don't forget the 8x-Bayshore Express (plus 8AX and 8BX) line too. But I think with the new Chinatown stations, it will relieve the pressure from nearly-always overcrowded 8x, 30, and 45 bus lines.
I think we all agree, the conditions are truly awful on the Chinatown-Bayshore Express lines, with the packed, over stuffed passenger loads filling these aging artic buses.

Yet, even if the Willie-Pak Boondoogle crawls out, there won't be any better alternatives for at least five years.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 07:32 AM   #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayviews

I think we all agree, the conditions are truly awful on the Chinatown-Bayshore Express lines, with the packed, over stuffed passenger loads filling these aging artic buses.

Yet, even if the Willie-Pak Boondoogle crawls out, there won't be any better alternatives for at least five years.
Yeah, and I believe that those look "tired and overused" too because those frequently get heavy loads most times of the day. Plus, with several round trips a day: it's like a person getting a bit nervous when he might get a heart attack because the loads are so heavy, you might need to cover your mouth just to avoid the smell of a homeless person with lots of bags.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 07:40 AM   #532
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Another afternoon commute with one no-show MUNI 28 bus, another overstuffed 28 bus, lots of angry passengers... yeah, that's MUNI if you know how "tired" its vehicles have become. So far, the bus has like 30 to 40 standees on board a Neoplan AN440 (40-foot) standard bus.
Right you are. The 28 is overcrowded so too the M-Line, which usually is assigned just a single car, rather than the two cars for the L-Taravals, which feeds tourists & other riders into the city-owned zoo. My sense is that the MUNI gets away with mostly single car trains on the M (even in rush hours) since most of the passengers are transient SF State students without the clout of the Taraval residents.

Of course a major reason the aging Neoplans are creeping along is that MUNI prioritized the Willie-Pak Boondogle over basic fleet replacement.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 07:45 AM   #533
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Originally Posted by bayviews

Right you are. The 28 is overcrowded so too the M-Line, which usually is assigned just a single car, rather than the two cars for the L-Taravals, which feeds tourists & other riders into the city-owned zoo. My sense is that the MUNI gets away with mostly single car trains on the M (even in rush hours) since most of the passengers are transient SF State students without the clout of the Taraval residents.

Of course a major reason the aging Neoplans are creeping along is that MUNI prioritized the Willie-Pak Boondogle over basic fleet replacement.
Hahaha yep. I've seen the M-Ocean View trains running on one-car trains, and I'm fine with it to start with. Yet, I've seen the L-Taraval trains being loaded too, especially during the AM commute. The morning M train I took earlier was a two-car train, which wasn't crowded at all, and there was another M train (one car) that would follow the train I was on a few minutes later. Yet, not only the 28 has seen the struggle of passenger overloads; the 29-Sunset too shares a similar overcrowding problem, especially that it serves both SF State and City College's Ocean (Main) Campus, which carry hundreds of riders every hour.

And tell me more about this Willie-Pak boondoggle that you've been talking about. (p.s. I've also sent a friend request to you too)
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Old October 16th, 2012, 08:48 AM   #534
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And tell me more about this Willie-Pak boondoggle that you've been talking about. (p.s. I've also sent a friend request to you too)
Yeah, we're all friends here. Oh, Ex-SF Mayor & career Sacto politico Willie Brown, Longtime Beijing-Chinatown Broker Rose Pak, & their Pals.

From what we've seen so far, they seem best placed to reap the biggest & most direct benefits from the MUNI's Boondoogle Subway.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 08:54 AM   #535
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Originally Posted by bayviews

Yeah, we're all friends here. Oh, Ex-SF Mayor & career Sacto politico Willie Brown, Longtime Beijing-Chinatown Broker Rose Pak, & their Pals.

From what we've seen so far, they seem best placed to reap the biggest & most direct benefits from the MUNI's Boondoogle Subway.
Oh well, the Central Subway is just one step towards lessening the overcrowded Muni bus lines along Stockton Street. So, if you disagree with the Central Subway, what's your alternative to address the overcrowded lines 8x, 30, and 45 running through Chinatown?
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Old October 16th, 2012, 08:40 PM   #536
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Yeah, we're all friends here. Oh, Ex-SF Mayor & career Sacto politico Willie Brown, Longtime Beijing-Chinatown Broker Rose Pak, & their Pals.

From what we've seen so far, they seem best placed to reap the biggest & most direct benefits from the MUNI's Boondoogle Subway.
Am I correct to say you do not like the Central Subway extention?

I support this project one hundred percent for the sole reason it follows San Francisco's transit first policy and does serve a highly populated area. Subways are not built overnight and it takes time. So 4-5 years is nothing. I lived in Beijing for two years and just returned to my City of Birth, San Francisco two months ago. Beijing has no less than six Subway ententions going on currently. You can only imagine the torn up streets and diversions. But, people are surviving and we shall too.

BTW, Rose Pak is from Canton and not Beijing. But, as you stated, she was and is still good friends with W. Brown. The Chinese political clout in San Francisco is impressive and strong.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 08:49 PM   #537
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Am I correct to say you do not like the Central Subway extention?

I support this project one hundred percent for the sole reason it follows San Francisco's transit first policy and does serve a highly populated area. Subways are not built overnight and it takes time. So 4-5 years is nothing. I lived in Beijing for two years and just returned to my City of Birth, San Francisco two months ago. Beijing has no less than six Subway ententions going on currently. You can only imagine the torn up streets and diversions. But, people are surviving and we shall too.

BTW, Rose Pak is from Canton and not Beijing. But, as you stated, she was and is still good friends with W. Brown. The Chinese political clout in San Francisco is impressive and strong.
Indeed. I agree with you with that one. I understand that Chinatown deserves a better and more frequent transit network, and the Central Subway is a good step forward towards making the community a more transit-friendly area to visit and live.
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Old October 17th, 2012, 02:14 AM   #538
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Am I correct to say you do not like the Central Subway extention?

I support this project one hundred percent for the sole reason it follows San Francisco's transit first policy and does serve a highly populated area. Subways are not built overnight and it takes time. So 4-5 years is nothing. I lived in Beijing for two years and just returned to my City of Birth, San Francisco two months ago. Beijing has no less than six Subway ententions going on currently. You can only imagine the torn up streets and diversions. But, people are surviving and we shall too.

BTW, Rose Pak is from Canton and not Beijing. But, as you stated, she was and is still good friends with W. Brown. The Chinese political clout in San Francisco is impressive and strong.
Beijing=PRC

I like what what Beijing, Shanghai & other PRC cities are doing with their subway expansions. Their strategic, similar to when BART & the initial MUNI metro light rail was built, & what some other US cities have done.

By contrast, there's nothing at all strategic (or central) at all about SF's Stubway. The pork is almost longer than the line. Worse yet its uncooked.
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Old October 17th, 2012, 02:42 AM   #539
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Oh well, the Central Subway is just one step towards lessening the overcrowded Muni bus lines along Stockton Street. So, if you disagree with the Central Subway, what's your alternative to address the overcrowded lines 8x, 30, and 45 running through Chinatown?
Just add another electrified surface line along Kearny.

The city has converted a number of one-way streets to two-way for better surface transit access. No reason they couldn't do the same with Kearny.

Yea its a couple of blocks down from Stockton, but would be convenient to the Hilton Chinese Cultural Center, Portsmouth Garage, House of Nanking, Buddahas Universal Church.

And best yet, the Chinatown City College, probably destined to one of the biggest destinations, which isn't on Stockton.

And the total cost: Probably $50-75 million at most, maybe less, as compared with $1.6 billion for the boondoogle.

And Kearny it could be up & running within just couple of years!

Can't say the same re the Stubway Boondoogle
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Old October 17th, 2012, 03:27 AM   #540
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Just add another electrified surface line along Kearny.

The city has converted a number of one-way streets to two-way for better surface transit access. No reason they couldn't do the same with Kearny.

Yea its a couple of blocks down from Stockton, but would be convenient to the Hilton Chinese Cultural Center, Portsmouth Garage, House of Nanking, Buddahas Universal Church.

And best yet, the Chinatown City College, probably destined to one of the biggest destinations, which isn't on Stockton.

And the total cost: Probably $50-75 million at most, maybe less, as compared with $1.6 billion for the boondoogle.

And Kearny it could be up & running within just couple of years!

Can't say the same re the Stubway Boondoogle
Well, Kearny is one way from Market through Columbus, sure. But Stockton is a two-way from Sutter through the tunnel all the way up to Fisherman's Wharf. And Stockton Street is a major thoroughfare through Chinatown, which is why Muni chose to send the trolley lines through Stockton Street instead of Kearny so that the 30 and 45 lines run through Stockton Street where the main commercial area is located.
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