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Old December 24th, 2012, 10:23 AM   #581
quashlo
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I caught a ride on Car 162 down to Fisherman’s Wharf and on the way back to the Ferry Building caught a Milan car… Some random scenes on the way back:

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PCC Car 1061, ex Philadelphia Transportation Company (PTC) / Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (SEPTA), built 1948, painted in the colors of the Pacific Electric Railway (PE) of Los Angeles. The ex-SEPTA and ex-NJT PCCs and ex-ATM Peter Witts form the bulk of the historic streetcar fleet, supplemented by the more unique and authentic pieces of the collection, which are primarily used on short-trip or special services.

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Another Torpedo in Wings livery

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A meet of San Francisco locals…

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Down the exclusive median ROW along The Embarcadero, where work is proceeding quickly on the piers in preparation for the America’s Cup races in 2013.

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PCC Car 1050, ex PTC / SEPTA, built 1948, painted in SF “Wings” colors.

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While today’s “F” line follows Market Street and The Embarcadero between the Castro and Fisherman’s Wharf, Muni’s original F was the “F Stockton” connecting the Marina and Downtown via the Stockton Tunnel. This route is now covered by the 30 Stockton trolley coach line.

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Back near the Ferry Building:

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Old December 24th, 2012, 10:24 AM   #582
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Time for a ride down Market Street on the Marmon-Herrington trolley coach, #776. Thankfully, they were able to ignore ADA regulations, else I probably wouldn’t have had the opportunity to ride it in revenue service.

image hosted on flickr


Now, a sunset ride down Market Street, San Francisco’s main street, in the old lady, 578S. Was lucky enough to get one of the open-air seats. For safety reasons, they weren’t allowing anybody down on the running boards. Much of the original streetcar traffic on Market Street, served on four tracks at street level, has been replaced by buses and underground trains. The inside tracks were used by the Market Street Railway, with Muni having the outer tracks. The vestiges of this heritage still remain in the quadruple wire down Market Street used by Muni’s trolley coach lines, even though there are now only two tracks at surface level.

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We plied along at a clip, but not fast enough for our follower, an ex-Milan Peter Witt…

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My final destination was 17th and Castro, but they ran 578S as an in-service pull-in run, and many of the railfans along for the ride stayed on all the way down the J Church line through Dolores Park and the Bernal Cut to Geneva Car House.

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Old January 3rd, 2013, 01:36 AM   #583
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[QUOTE=quashlo;98587206]Time for a ride down Market Street on the Marmon-Herrington trolley coach, #776. Thankfully, they were able to ignore ADA regulations, else I probably wouldn’t have had the opportunity to ride it in revenue service.


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Great pics! MUNI at 100 was a one of the agencies best events. The rare sight of that wonderful Marmon Herrington going down Market Street was one of the highlights!

The Marmons ruled San Francisco up to circa 1976 when the Flyers started arriving, holding down most of the assignments at Potero and about half the runs at Presidio.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 02:47 PM   #584
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Might look nice, but it truly seems a waste of money in times where it is cash-strapped for funds and with tons of delayed maintenance.

Is a taxpayer-subsidized party on rails with vintage vehicles a good use of scarce financial resources? I'm not sure.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 05:22 PM   #585
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I believe that's something the taxpayers in the Bay Area should eventually be the judge of.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 08:08 PM   #586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Might look nice, but it truly seems a waste of money in times where it is cash-strapped for funds and with tons of delayed maintenance.

Is a taxpayer-subsidized party on rails with vintage vehicles a good use of scarce financial resources? I'm not sure.
The party on rails is actually the brainchild of a small organization called the Market Street Railway, which handles historic streetcar orders and streetcar maintenance, as well as historic vehicle preservation. Operating them is under the jurisdiction of Muni, and donations are needed to keep the venerable streetcars in great shape -- and some of them for repairs. Their website can be found here, and while Muni takes care of these streetcars for storage, repairs and maintenance come from donations.

@Alargule: Well, the San Francisco Municipal Railway (Muni) is a publicly-owned agency, operated as a subsidiary of a larger transportation agency, the San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency (SFMTA), which in turn is a branch of the City and County of San Francisco. In fact, recently, the San Francisco County Transportation Agency (yes, this is separate from the SFMTA) has held a contest on how to spend over potentially $10 billion in grants and loans from the Federal and State government, and it gives users opportunities to balance a "meager" budget, with each project providing a "small", "medium", and "large"-scale improvement. I've checked it out (now closed), and it was a pretty interesting experience on how tough budgeting can be, especially in terms of prioritizing which project should be done immediately (e.g. Road repairs, potholes)
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Old January 5th, 2013, 01:15 AM   #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Might look nice, but it truly seems a waste of money in times where it is cash-strapped for funds and with tons of delayed maintenance.

Is a taxpayer-subsidized party on rails with vintage vehicles a good use of scarce financial resources? I'm not sure.
You've raised some good points. I've been as critical as anyone when it comes to many of the foolish & waistful practices & boondoogles of SF's municipal transit agency. However, much of the preservation activities are done by volunteers. Also, the celebration of MUNI's first century was a fun, free, & rare way of raising spirits & getting residents & riders interested in MUNI's system & vehicles. Afterall, this only comes around once a century!
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Old January 5th, 2013, 06:20 AM   #588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayviews View Post
You've raised some good points. I've been as critical as anyone when it comes to many of the foolish & waistful practices & boondoogles of SF's municipal transit agency. However, much of the preservation activities are done by volunteers. Also, the celebration of MUNI's first century was a fun, free, & rare way of raising spirits & getting residents & riders interested in MUNI's system & vehicles. Afterall, this only comes around once a century!
However, The F-Line itself can hardly be called a failure, since it ranks in the top echelon of routes in term of ridership. (And the Cable Cars don't do too shabbily either)
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Old January 5th, 2013, 06:23 AM   #589
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On top of that, the F line holds pieces of history valuable to San Francisco's growth and the prominence of the streetcars in the past. Fortunately, the streetcars survived, and those are not only a prime tourist attraction to themselves, but also provide a key service linking tourists and commuters between Fisherman's Wharf, the Ferry Building, the Financial District, Union Square, Civic Center, and the Castro District, all of which are prime tourist areas.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 01:53 AM   #590
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Quote:
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However, The F-Line itself can hardly be called a failure, since it ranks in the top echelon of routes in term of ridership. (And the Cable Cars don't do too shabbily either)
FDW good at last to finally see you back on your own thread!

Of course I've never been anything but supportive of both the F Line & the Cable Cars.
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Old January 7th, 2013, 04:53 AM   #591
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FDW good at last to finally see you back on your own thread!

Of course I've never been anything but supportive of both the F Line & the Cable Cars.
Well, I've been occupied with stuff. But I'll harder to more for The Bay Area thread like Aleksey and Mopc do with the Moscow and Sao Paulo threads this year (I've got this interesting concept known that I refer to as "The Evolution of Routes").

As for The Central Subway, I believe I've mentioned that I prefered the 2003-2007 version of the project, where The Chinatown station was a block further south and there were separate Union Square and Market St Stations (Though I do like the addition of the Brannan St Stop).
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Old January 7th, 2013, 05:01 AM   #592
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I'm already working on a brand new project called Bay Area Transit in Pictures, in which every single day, you will get to see a brand new transit picture from our patch, and it can come from any of the nine-county San Francisco Bay Area. What started with a streetcar, I've now included a taxi, a ferry, and even the Temporary Transbay Terminal! What if we can collaborate on your topic and see how far we can go? By the way, the album link is on my signature below this message...
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Old January 7th, 2013, 12:46 PM   #593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
I'm already working on a brand new project called Bay Area Transit in Pictures, in which every single day, you will get to see a brand new transit picture from our patch, and it can come from any of the nine-county San Francisco Bay Area. What started with a streetcar, I've now included a taxi, a ferry, and even the Temporary Transbay Terminal! What if we can collaborate on your topic and see how far we can go? By the way, the album link is on my signature below this message...
I'd think I'd prefer to work on my own for now. But one that should be brought to light is some of the past proposals for Mass Transit in the region that are Eric Fischer's Flickr account.
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Old January 7th, 2013, 12:47 PM   #594
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Oh. I'm looking forward to that one indeed!
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Old January 8th, 2013, 11:31 AM   #595
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In my free time over the past two weeks, I've been working on a fantasy map for Muni Metro... Sort of a "What if most of the former Market Street Railway streetcar lines survived bustitution and there had been continued improvement of the network by Muni, what would it look like in 2050?" deal. As part of this, I took plenty of liberties in normalizing the stop spacing to speed up service, as well as add a few new lines to serve future development (Parkmerced, CPHPS, etc.) and regroup / reorganize line segments. I wouldn't take it too seriously, as LRVs probably wouldn't be able to tackle the grades along Castro / Noe, Fillmore, Sacramento, Mansell, etc.

There's a saying that San Francisco is "a city of neighborhoods"... To take advantage of this, I also exercised some creative license by giving each stop a unique name instead of the standard "X Street & Y Avenue" deal. Sometimes it's the name of the neighborhood, other times a local landmark, or some reference to the historical significance of the area. Wasn't necessarily easy, particularly out in the nondescript, monotonous Outer Sunset, but was interesting to take a peek into the "micro-history" or "micro-geography" of these places.

Anyways, enough squawking... You can download the .svg here. I angled the text, but didn't vectorize it, so sorry if it's a little hard to read. Definitely not a "polished" map, but I don't expect to ever go back and work on it again:
https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...XdZZDZwOHB3elU

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Old January 8th, 2013, 07:42 PM   #596
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The bus-titution looks pretty interesting, especially with a lot of branching between many, many lines, and some of them still use the main (trunk) line to complete the routes. Question, though: how will bus-titution serve the Golden Gate Bridge when the area surrounding it -- along with the Presidio -- are nearly always too crowded to already create such a substitution from bus to LRV?
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Old January 8th, 2013, 11:08 PM   #597
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In my free time over the past two weeks, I've been working on a fantasy map for Muni Metro... [/IMG]
Interesting.

However, any new map of the MUNI routes should be color coded by modes.

How many times have you heard MUNI riders (especially teens & college kids) calling the million dollar plus light rail vehicle their riding just a (cheap) bus?

If MUNI's going to pay two million for a light rail vehicle at least it should be coded.

Their ignorance is a function of MUNI's failure to identify & code its varied.
modes.
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Old January 8th, 2013, 11:30 PM   #598
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It's not a Muni map per se... It's a Muni Metro map. Bus routes and cable car routes are not shown.
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Old January 8th, 2013, 11:34 PM   #599
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The bus-titution looks pretty interesting, especially with a lot of branching between many, many lines, and some of them still use the main (trunk) line to complete the routes. Question, though: how will bus-titution serve the Golden Gate Bridge when the area surrounding it -- along with the Presidio -- are nearly always too crowded to already create such a substitution from bus to LRV?
"Bustitution" is replacing a rail line with buses, which is what happened to most of the streetcar network, not replacing a bus line with rail.

Regarding your other question, it's a fantasy map... I wouldn't worry about it too much. My vision was for a "city loop" that basically combines the 28 / 28L, M, 8X, T, Central Subway, and 30 in one package. If that were ever, under a blue moon, to happen, the Presidio leg would be the least likely to be built.
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Old January 8th, 2013, 11:36 PM   #600
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Oh ok. Got it. I thought it would be a return to the rails (thus I might call it LR substitution) from buses, which would be much more awesome, but with increasing costs, may not be feasible.
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