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Old January 23rd, 2014, 06:25 PM   #681
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Originally Posted by phoenixboi08 View Post
I rode BART for the first time this past weekend, and it was the first time I got lost on a transit system.
Hmm. Never seemed difficult to me and if you keep riding I predict you will quickly stop getting lost. You just need to know which line your destination is on and board a train on that line. The only difficulty comes if you have to transfer in the East Bay (any one of 3 possible stations). But if you think there's anything complicated about BART, you should ride the New York subway. When I'm there, I find myself even having to answer questions from locals about which platform or train to use and some of the connections require traversing a labyrinth of tunnels.
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Old January 24th, 2014, 09:02 AM   #682
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When I took the BART the biggest problem was that the stops are called out by the driver and often were difficult to hear, there was no interior electronic signs with the station name, and the platforms were dark and station signs were small and difficult to read. Also, giving the trains names like "Pittsburg/Bay Point" or "Dublin/Pleasanton" might be difficult to outsiders.
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Old January 24th, 2014, 09:30 AM   #683
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Originally Posted by Tcmetro View Post
When I took the BART the biggest problem was that the stops are called out by the driver and often were difficult to hear, there was no interior electronic signs with the station name, and the platforms were dark and station signs were small and difficult to read. Also, giving the trains names like "Pittsburg/Bay Point" or "Dublin/Pleasanton" might be difficult to outsiders.
Ah yes... Should that be the case, you can always ask a fellow passenger to guide you through the system. Also, there are pamphlets showing schedules and fares, transit connections, attractions, etc, all of which include the BART system map. And, the platform numbers can be small indeed, especially that it is located under the electronic signages for destinations and announcements.

Here's how I remember platform numbers:

East Bay (north, from 12th St/Downtown Oakland)
• Platform 1 would typically head north or east (towards Richmond or Pittsburg)
• Platform 2 would typically head south (towards San Francisco or Fremont)

East Bay (MacArthur Station only)
• Platform 1 (outer platform) would be for Richmond-bound trains
• Platform 2 (outer platform) would be for either San Francisco/Millbrae or Fremont-bound trains
• Platform 3 (inner platform) would be for Pittsburg/Bay Point-bound trains (sometimes, though, Richmond trains also use this platform)
• Platform 4 (inner platform) would be for SFO Airport (also Millbrae nighttime)-bound trains

East Bay (12th Street and 19th Street/Downtown Oakland only)
• Platform 1 (Basement 1) would be for Richmond-bound trains
• Platform 2 (Basement 2) would be for both San Francisco and Fremont-bound trains (also for SFO Airport and Millbrae)
• Platform 3 (Basement 1) would be for Pittsburg/Bay Point-bound trains (sometimes, though, Richmond trains also use this platform)

East Bay (south, from Lake Merritt)
• Platform 1 would typically head south or east (towards Fremont or Dublin/Pleasanton)
• Platform 2 would typically head north or west (towards Richmond or San Francisco)

West Oakland and San Francisco stops
• Platform 1 would head southwest (away from the East Bay; for Daly City, SFO Airport, and Millbrae)
• Platform 2 would head northeast (toward the East Bay; for Fremont, Richmond, Dublin/Pleasanton, or Pittsburg/Bay Point)

Daly City Station only
• Platform 1 would be for trains continuing from SFO Airport and Millbrae (for Richmond and Pittsburg/Bay Point)
• Platform 2 would be for trains terminating at the station and a turnaround point (for Fremont and Dublin/Pleasanton)
• Platform 3 would be for trains continuing to SFO Airport and Millbrae (sometimes used as a terminal for peak period trains)

San Mateo County (however, I noted some inconsistencies in platform sequencing)
• Platform 1 would be for trains heading northbound (towards San Francisco and the East Bay)
• Platform 2 would be for trains heading southbound (towards SFO Airport and Millbrae)

For terminal stations, trains would typically depart from Platform 2 (unless stated otherwise); at SFO Airport weeknights and weekends, Platform 3 gets used for trains heading to Millbrae, while Platform 1 are for San Francisco and Pittsburg/Bay Point trains.

Also, if you ever get confused by the destination head signs, just remember: between Daly City and West Oakland, all trains will run through San Francisco, stopping at all stops, irregardless of their East Bay or Peninsula destination. And, there are transfer techniques I mentioned in an earlier post too. Most of all, if you have more questions, you can send me a PM.
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Last edited by fieldsofdreams; January 24th, 2014 at 09:36 AM.
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Old January 25th, 2014, 03:28 PM   #684
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That's true... But I think the train cars that will be used on this service will be smaller in scale than Caltrain. I thought, though (in hindsight) that if BART could invest in extending the actual BART service through Santa Clara County, then it could've done so too for Pittsburg—Antioch. That way, no train and gauge changes will be needed to make it happen, and it will be a one-ride service all the way through.
Yeah, I found that curious and strange, but I know nothing about what went into planning for that, so.... *shrug*.
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Old January 31st, 2014, 10:12 AM   #685
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Published on Youtube, TBM crossing under Market St Subway:

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Old February 23rd, 2014, 02:16 AM   #686
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I have a question: why don't they merge the Martket Street Light Rail tunnel with the Twin Peaks tunnel and make it into a full-spec subway?
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Old February 23rd, 2014, 04:11 AM   #687
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I have a question: why don't they merge the Martket Street Light Rail tunnel with the Twin Peaks tunnel and make it into a full-spec subway?
Actually, the Market Street LR Subway and the Twin Peaks Tunnel are connected to each other, with the remaining stations west of Castro Station, namely Forest Hill and West Portal, are part of the Twin Peaks Tunnel. The only reason that the two cannot be made into a full-blown subway is simple: historically, most of San Francisco's light rail services that fan out from Downtown and Market Street run through residential neighborhoods, and that those lines were laid more than 75 years ago, in which reconfiguring them to subway specs would be difficult to achieve, especially if those run through hills. And by the way, many of the stops on the outer neighborhoods of the City are nothing more than a flagpole stop, with just a bus stop pole or a stop posted on an electric power line.
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Old February 23rd, 2014, 04:30 AM   #688
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I rode BART for the first time this past weekend, and it was the first time I got lost on a transit system.
Don't feel bad about having getting lost. BART itself seems to have gotten lost to the point they've had re-occuring problems just about daily, the latest today being a derailment. BART used to be a VERY reliable system & we do hope that it gets back on its tracks!!!
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Old February 23rd, 2014, 04:50 AM   #689
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Well, BART has been a reliable mass transit system for me in many years, it's just that not everyday you'll encounter news of derailments, especially what happened last night in Concord. Fortunately, it was an out of service train being hauled back to Concord from Pleasant Hill, but it caused major inconvenience for passengers traveling to Concord, Martinez, Pittsburg, Bay Point, and points east (especially Antioch).
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Old February 23rd, 2014, 03:43 PM   #690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal_Escapee View Post
Hmm. Never seemed difficult to me and if you keep riding I predict you will quickly stop getting lost. You just need to know which line your destination is on and board a train on that line. The only difficulty comes if you have to transfer in the East Bay (any one of 3 possible stations). But if you think there's anything complicated about BART, you should ride the New York subway. When I'm there, I find myself even having to answer questions from locals about which platform or train to use and some of the connections require traversing a labyrinth of tunnels.
No, I just wasn't paying well enough attention. My problem was that, simply relying on the signage, it wasn't at all clear to me that there weren't 4 platforms. Thus, when I went down at Civic Center, saw a train there and the display read, "Richmond," I just got on. However, I ended up having to get off in Fruitvale when I realized I was heading south towards Fremont, not north towards Berkeley (the friend I was with chose that as the appropriate time to tell me about that police shooting several years ago).

I wouldn't say I got lost, as it's kind of a hard thing to do, but it took a while to understand how the trains are announced (arriving train then the next, with fairly accurate time estimates). Once I understood I was on a commuter system and not a subway, it was fine.

Ultimately, I guess my problem was boarding in SF, in which the Bart really looks like any other metro system. The trains aren't distinguished from one another either, which seems to be something they want to address with the new rolling stock (e.g. indicators on the actual trains as well).

Oddly enough, I've never had difficulties in NY, as the only thing you really need to worry about is local vs. express at certain stations. Otherwise, if you're on the right platform, you're going in the right direction. Which is what I meant before about Bart: 70% was my own stupidity and 30% was bad signage
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Old February 23rd, 2014, 07:09 PM   #691
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Should BART be extended from Milbrae to San Jose, where it would meet those extensions u/c, thus making the system a "full ring" around Silicon Valley, San Jose and East Bay?

They could even build it on a more westward alignment between San Jose and Milbrae, serving locations too far away from Caltrain stations and key locations like Stanford, Los Altos, Campbell.
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Old February 23rd, 2014, 08:17 PM   #692
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Should BART be extended from Milbrae to San Jose, where it would meet those extensions u/c, thus making the system a "full ring" around Silicon Valley, San Jose and East Bay?

They could even build it on a more westward alignment between San Jose and Milbrae, serving locations too far away from Caltrain stations and key locations like Stanford, Los Altos, Campbell.
The problem with "completing the ring" is the cost estimate, which might go beyond $15 billion. An upgraded Caltrain could easily handle the workload for a fraction of that.
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Old February 23rd, 2014, 10:50 PM   #693
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Should BART be extended from Milbrae to San Jose, where it would meet those extensions u/c, thus making the system a "full ring" around Silicon Valley, San Jose and East Bay?

They could even build it on a more westward alignment between San Jose and Milbrae, serving locations too far away from Caltrain stations and key locations like Stanford, Los Altos, Campbell.
Could be a good idea, but it could cause a huge redundancy in service that could impact ridership on multiple bus lines. The El Camino Real corridor, which runs between San Francisco and San Jose through the Peninsula already has multiple transit lines operating along it, including:

• Caltrain (local, semi-express, and Baby Bullet)
• SamTrans (lines ECR, KX, 292, 297, 397, 398, and multiple local lines)
• San Francisco Muni (multiple local lines)
• Santa Clara VTA (lines 22, 522, and multiple local bus and light rail lines)

If BART is to be constructed along the El Camino Real corridor, it could severely impact ridership on Caltrain, especially that it has been chosen as the alignment for the upcoming California HSR service, and the alignment through the rail corridor may not be altered, especially through residential areas in San Mateo County. The best alternative would be electrification to boost ridership further and add more capacity for trains.
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Old February 23rd, 2014, 11:06 PM   #694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixboi08 View Post
No, I just wasn't paying well enough attention. My problem was that, simply relying on the signage, it wasn't at all clear to me that there weren't 4 platforms. Thus, when I went down at Civic Center, saw a train there and the display read, "Richmond," I just got on. However, I ended up having to get off in Fruitvale when I realized I was heading south towards Fremont, not north towards Berkeley (the friend I was with chose that as the appropriate time to tell me about that police shooting several years ago).

I wouldn't say I got lost, as it's kind of a hard thing to do, but it took a while to understand how the trains are announced (arriving train then the next, with fairly accurate time estimates). Once I understood I was on a commuter system and not a subway, it was fine.

Ultimately, I guess my problem was boarding in SF, in which the Bart really looks like any other metro system. The trains aren't distinguished from one another either, which seems to be something they want to address with the new rolling stock (e.g. indicators on the actual trains as well).

Oddly enough, I've never had difficulties in NY, as the only thing you really need to worry about is local vs. express at certain stations. Otherwise, if you're on the right platform, you're going in the right direction. Which is what I meant before about Bart: 70% was my own stupidity and 30% was bad signage
The main difference I remember for BART trains would be their destinations... Here's how I do it:

• Look at the destination sign (especially from San Francisco). If a train heads to...
— Fremont or Dublin/Pleasanton: trains will stop between Daly City and Bay Fair Stations (also for OAK Airport).
— Richmond or Pittsburg/Bay Point: trains will stop between San Bruno and MacArthur (Oakland) Stations.
• On weeknights, Saturdays before 9am and after 5:30pm, and all-day Sundays and holidays, you'll need to remember that only two types of trains operate to the East Bay: Dublin/Pleasanton and Pittsburg/Bay Point, and the SFO Airport train extends its service to Millbrae.
• If you mess up, you can always switch between trains at San Bruno, Daly City (especially for EB), Balboa Park, West Oakland (especially for EB), 12th Street/Oakland, 19th Street/Oakland, MacArthur, Lake Merritt (especially for WB), or Bay Fair stations.
• Check out their Real Time Predictions here (also available for mobile phones)
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Old February 24th, 2014, 06:15 PM   #695
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I guess one good thing about BART is if you get on a train going in the wrong direction, you can switch back at the next station. In many parts of NYC subway, it can be many stations before there is a transfer to the opposite-bound platform.
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Old February 24th, 2014, 06:29 PM   #696
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Absolutely! The near-frequent service helps in making such trips quicker, especially on shared parts of the service (which covers roughly 75% of the network on weekdays, much less on weekends), and all trains stopping at every stop helps immensely too.

Essentially, stations that are served by two or more lines at all times of operation are:

• Daly City
• All San Francisco stations (8 total)
• Almost all Oakland stations (except Rockridge, which is served only by the Pittsburg/Bay Point line, totaling 7)
• San Leandro
• Bay Fair
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 08:35 PM   #697
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I have a question: why does BART use that odd track gauge instead of standard gauge? It is a new system, there must be a reason for that...

I also don't understand their choice for electric current, and this dumb-down thing caller eBART.
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 12:53 AM   #698
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I have a question: why does BART use that odd track gauge instead of standard gauge? It is a new system, there must be a reason for that...

I also don't understand their choice for electric current, and this dumb-down thing caller eBART.
Did you mean the Indian gauge? Well, at the time when it was developed and constructed in the 1960s and 70s, BART was completely funded on its own without any Federal government help, relying instead on State and local funding to build the network, and that the Indian gauge was used to allow wider train widths to operate along the tracks. At the time when it was completed (1972), it had a futuristic train design that was an envy throughout the United States for its uniqueness, and over 40 years later, that same design can still be seen on its trains (the triangular nose layout of the "A" trains). And by the way, it may be a newer system, but the wider rail gauge has quite a lot of advantages too, including:

• wider walking gaps for passengers who may need to be evacuated when an earthquake strikes
• the wider gap between tracks allow maintenance workers to inspect each section of its rails in detail
• it allows train developers to create lighter train cars (in fact, BART trains are among the lightest metro cars in the world) while not compromising safety and speed performance
• wider train tracks allow greater speed limits, especially through long, nonstop portions (e.g. Transbay Tube, portion between Castro Valley and West Dublin stations, Caldecott Tunnel).

As for eBART, it will use Diesel Multiple Unit (DMU) trains that only require standard gauge because those will operate to the further out suburbs of the East Bay, notably Antioch, Oakley, and Livermore, and using conventional rail for those portions would be significantly cheaper to build and maintain, especially for the lower-density communities. Extending conventional BART to those suburbs can be very costly (not to mention extending the third rail that can cause concerns for power supply and the amount of additional tracks needed to extend all the way further east), could cause increased noise along the communities eBART trains will serve, and 8- to 10-car trains may not necessarily get full when they go beyond Pittsburg/Bay Point and East Dublin/Pleasanton Stations.
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 03:02 AM   #699
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While BART was celebrating the 50th anniversary of its creation, their vision for the next 50 years includes a new four-bore Transbay Tube beneath San Francisco Bay that would run parallel to and south of the existing Transbay Tube and emerge at the Transay Transit Centre to provide connecting service for Caltrain and the planned California High-Speed Rail System. The new tube would have an additional two tracks for BART and two tubes for conventional high-speed rail (each pair has different rail gauges). In the terminal, there would be 6 tracks: 4 for high-speed rail and 2 for Caltrain.

I discovered this info on the Transbay Tube's Wikipedia article.
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 03:40 AM   #700
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BART is only 41 years old... whoever wrote that it is 50 years seems lost. San Francisco Municipal Railway (Muni), on the other hand, is 101 years old.
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