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Old November 6th, 2014, 08:47 PM   #821
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Yep... the problem though would be the total round trip cost...

And by the way, speaking of Napa, have you tried VINE's Route 25 yet, doing Napa to Sonoma? It does that service 3x each during the morning and afternoon commute, with limited stops in Napa and only one stop in Sonoma: Sonoma Plaza. From Sonoma Plaza, you can connect to either Sonoma County Transit's Lines 30 (to Santa Rosa), 32 (within Sonoma Valley), or 40 to Petaluma (also commute periods only).
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Old November 6th, 2014, 09:10 PM   #822
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I haven't! But I am going to be home a bunch in the next couple weeks so I will have to give it a try -- since most of my planned activities involve heavy wine consumption, having a transit option may prove invaluable.
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Old November 6th, 2014, 09:17 PM   #823
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Also try using VINE's Day Pass as well, which I found very, very useful. For just $5, you can get around Napa County in style and even hop over to Vallejo (on Line 11), Sonoma (on Line 25), and Fairfield (on Line 21) in one day! And it will essentially pay itself off once you've ridden 4 or more buses (worth $1.50 a ride)... the problem: you need to get it at the new Soscol Transportation Center, located behind the Wine Train terminal.
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Old November 6th, 2014, 09:42 PM   #824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarshallKnight View Post
I'm from Napa actually (don't live there now, but my parents still do and I'm back there or in SF every few weeks), so the chance of train service ever being useful to me is even more remote. But I agree, SMART is a good start, and GG Transit definitely does a good job bridging the gap. It just feels like, if you have to ride the train all the way from Santa Rosa to Tiburon, and THEN take a bus into the City, that service is going to be used a lot less than a rail line that goes the whole distance.
Geography makes it is nearly impossible to cross the Golden Gate with a railroad tunnel, and then tunnel under most of the city to the under-construction Transbay Terminal, without spending probably $10s of billions of dollars. It's just not worth the expense and disruption. I DO believe SMART should have a good connection to the Larkspur Ferry - it's the best possible solution with the (nearly) available resources.

There HAS been talk of having passenger rail in Napa County. More recently, some investors hoping for light rail between St. Helena and Napa in 2011 (http://www.winesandvines.com/templat...&content=92809, http://napavalleyregister.com/news/l...cc4c002e0.html) and also a plan from the early 2000s to connect Napa to the Vallejo Ferry Terminal, much like SMART hopefully will (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...78677474,d.cGU - This is a 20mb PDF). It would of course be nice to see both parallel lines built with a connector along the existing railroad right of way along Highway 37 with stations at the Sonoma Raceway and City of Sonoma. But that's probably not going to happen anytime soon, if ever. It's ok to dream right?
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Old November 6th, 2014, 10:11 PM   #825
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... It's just not worth the expense and disruption. I DO believe SMART should have a good connection to the Larkspur Ferry - it's the best possible solution with the (nearly) available resources.

There HAS been talk of having passenger rail in Napa County. More recently, some investors hoping for light rail between St. Helena and Napa in 2011 and also a plan from the early 2000s to connect Napa to the Vallejo Ferry Terminal, much like SMART hopefully will ... It would of course be nice to see both parallel lines built with a connector along the existing railroad right of way along Highway 37 with stations at the Sonoma Raceway and City of Sonoma. But that's probably not going to happen anytime soon, if ever. It's ok to dream right?
Agreed that direct rail from the North Bay to SF will most likely never happen for the reasons you described, it's all just fanciful thinking.

But man, I've been out of it too long to even be aware of most of those other proposals, and they're all so sorely needed. My folks moved up to St. Helena last year and it is just a nightmare getting there outside of the non-touristy winter months, when every person on the planet is packed onto Highway 29 and Silverado Trail. Put the tourists and the commuters on the Wine Train tracks and suddenly everyone's lives improve tenfold.

I also use the Vallejo ferry terminal somewhat frequently, but the thing is, if I have to drive down there from Napa or St. Helena, it's all too easy to just keep driving into the City... If I could take a train to the ferry (and on the Sonoma side, to Larkspur, which is obviously a much quicker ride into SF) I'd absolutely never take my car.

Has there ever been discussion of connecting such a service to the Amtrak line that crosses at Benicia-Martinez?

And it's of course okay to dream, but hell, let's make these things happen!
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Old November 7th, 2014, 01:14 AM   #826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
Yep... the problem though would be the total round trip cost...

And by the way, speaking of Napa, have you tried VINE's Route 25 yet, doing Napa to Sonoma? It does that service 3x each during the morning and afternoon commute
Wow, Napa and Sonoma have horrible transit frequency. The upshot is you can drink as much as you want at the winery and not worry about getting a DUI.
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Old November 7th, 2014, 01:48 AM   #827
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Oh yeah, absolutely. Wait until you go a bit further... with Solano County.

Here's what I know of with Napa and Sonoma:

Napa VINE:

Trunk lines: these operate daily, excluding certain holidays. These routes operate concurrently in the City of Napa between Redwood Drive Park-and-Ride (at Hwy 29) and Napa Valley College via Trancas St and Soscol Ave, and both lines serve Soscol Transportation Center.
- Route 10 (Calistoga - Napa Valley College via Highway 29)
- Route 11 (Redwood Dr. Park-and-Ride - Vallejo Ferry Terminal via American Canyon)

City of Napa lines: all lines operate Mondays to Saturdays only, excluding certain holidays.
- Lines 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (all starting and ending at Soscol Transportation Center)
- Lines 6, 7 (both starting and ending at Redwood Dr. Park-and-Ride)
- Line 8 (connects Soscol TC and Redwood Dr. Park-and-Ride via Jefferson St)

Intercounty services: all these lines operate Mondays to Fridays only; check schedules for more information.
- Line 21 (Napa - Fairfield)
- Line 25 (Napa - Sonoma)
- Line 29 (Calistoga - El Cerrito Del Norte BART)*

Shuttles**:
- American Canyon Transit
- Calistoga Shuttle
- St. Helena Shuttle
- Yountville Trolley (free service)

* - While all lines have the same fares, additional fare is required to ride the Hwy 29 Express. Day Passes are not accepted on this line; only monthly passes.
** - These shuttles have different fares than the VINE fare structure; however, transfers to and from these shuttles are honored by VINE for continuing travel.

Sonoma County Transit:

Basic, intracounty services: all but Line 44 offer express services as well (with a suffix X)
- Line 20 (Santa Rosa - Monte Rio) -- Line 20X operates to and from Occidental via River Rd, see below
- Line 30 (Santa Rosa - Sonoma via Hwy 12)
- Line 44 (Santa Rosa - Petaluma via Sonoma State)
- Line 48 (Santa Rosa - Petaluma via Petaluma Blvd)
- Line 60 (Santa Rosa - Cloverdale via Healdsburg)

Community circulators and services:
- Lines 10, 12, and 14 (Rohnert Park and Cotati)
- Line 22 (Sebastopol - Graton Casino via Gravenstein Hwy and Rohnert Park)
- Line 24 (Sebastopol circulator)
- Line 26 (Sebastopol - Sonoma State University via Rohnert Park)
- Line 28 (Guerneville - Monte Rio)
- Line 32 (Sonoma Valley circulator)
- Line 46 (Santa Rosa - Sonoma State via Petaluma Hill Rd)
- Line 62 (Santa Rosa - Windsor via Sonoma County Airport)
- Line 66 (Windsor circulator)
- Line 67 (Healdsburg circulator)
- Line 68 (Cloverdale circulator)

Peak period services:
- Lines 20X, 30X, 48X, and 60X (certain portions of those lines are bypassed)
- Line 34 (Santa Rosa - Sonoma Plaza) - reverse commute service
- Line 38 (Sonoma Valley - San Rafael TC) - northern terminus in Oakmont
- Line 42 (Santa Rosa - Industry Park West)

More information can be found here and here.
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Old November 7th, 2014, 01:53 AM   #828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
Wow, Napa and Sonoma have horrible transit frequency. The upshot is you can drink as much as you want at the winery and not worry about getting a DUI.
Yeah, they're very much driving towns/regions; very rural and spread out, only small walkable areas in the downtowns of Napa, Sonoma, Yountville, St. Helena, etc., separated by miles of vineyards. If you're a tourist, your best bet is generally to hire a tour company for the day to shuttle you around (and I don't just say that because my dad runs one of them). But a lot of people play the "how many tastes can I get away with" game... and get away with it because the police have an unspoken policy of not setting up DUI checkpoints until after the wineries close.
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Old November 11th, 2014, 05:21 PM   #829
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BART Oakland International Airport connector - opening 2014.11.22

BART website
http://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2014/news20141107

Quote:
11.07.2014
BART to OAK service to open in time for Thanksgiving travel




It’s fast, it’s frequent, it’s convenient, and it’s about to open. BART’s new train to plane service, “BART to OAK,” which provides an easy connection to Oakland International Airport, will open in time for Thanksgiving travel on Saturday, November 22, 2014.

To mark this exciting moment in BART’s history, a public celebration will be held on Friday, November 21, to give the community a chance to check out the new stations, the beautiful art work, and to take a free ride before it opens.

Clean, Easy, and Quick Service

Starting on Saturday, November 22, 2014, riders will be able to board one of four three-car automated people movers at either the Coliseum Station or the Oakland International Airport Station and take the eight-minute ride at 30 mph.

“The ride and the experience alone are memorable,” said BART General Manager Grace Crunican. “Riders get a 360 degree view from the windows surrounding the entire car as you travel over the traffic below. It’s a cable propelled system with light-weight and quiet trains, so it’s like gliding through the air.”

Trains arrive every 5 minutes during peak commute hours (weekdays 8am-8pm) and drop off and pick up riders just steps away from both terminals at OAK. BART riders have a quick and easy train to train transfer at the Coliseum station. Riders can use a BART ticket or a Clipper Card. The complete schedule can be found below.

Sample one-way adult fares between the new Oakland International Airport Station and various stations throughout the system include: from Downtown Oakland stations: $7.85; from Downtown San Francisco stations: $10.05; from Downtown Berkeley station $8.50; from Walnut Creek station $9.70; from Fremont $9.85; from Dublin Pleasanton station: $9.80. Fare listings can be found here: http://www.bart.gov/tickets/calculator

The project team has already won awards for the systems' innovative engineering and forward use of technology. The project broke ground in 2010 and construction cost $484 million. As of Saturday, November 22nd, AirBART buses will no longer be in operation.

Get a Sneak Peek, Join the Celebration

A public celebration will take place on Friday, November 21st at the Coliseum Station from 11am-3pm. The festivities include commemoratives and local music. All costs of the celebration have been paid through the generous donations of various sponsors. More details can be found at www.bart.gov/grandopening


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Old November 11th, 2014, 07:56 PM   #830
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If I only do the Coliseum-Oakland International Airport section, $6 one-way can be a bit too much for starters... but it runs nonstop, so it can be worth the quick, seamless ride (with BART connections at Coliseum Station). On the other hand, AC Transit offers two ways to get to and from OAK, which is much cheaper than BART:

- Line 21 operates to Fruitvale BART and the Dimond District (MacArthur & Fruitvale) via Downtown Alameda and Bay Farm Island (ferries to SF also available from here).
- Line 73 operates to Coliseum BART and Eastmont Transit Center via Hegenberger Rd and 73rd Avenue. This line allows passengers to really go local and see how day-to-day activities go by in a city bus.

Both charge $2.10 for adults, $1.05 for youth, seniors, and the handicapped. Clipper cards accepted (with a 10c discount), and after 3 rides (equaling $5), a day pass will be activated, allowing you to ride additional local buses for no extra charge. If paying by cash, however, a one-time transfer costs 25c, and it is valid for 2 hours from time issued.
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Old November 12th, 2014, 02:57 PM   #831
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Updated map on urbanrail.net with people mover in orange:

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Old November 12th, 2014, 05:55 PM   #832
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What is the feasibility of another Bay cross for BART, between Millbrae and Bay Fair?
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Old November 12th, 2014, 07:35 PM   #833
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Is San Francisco a. Ritch city
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Old November 12th, 2014, 08:47 PM   #834
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@Sub may be possible, but you will be fighting against a lot of agencies and communities to make it happen. Not to mention, San Mateo County offers a different policy on BART than the original three members (San Francisco, Alameda County, and Contra Costa County), which means you will also be dealing with the San Mateo County Transit District in San Carlos to make that happen. And the current rail layout in Millbrae may not work for a possible extension to Bay Fair (unincorporated Alameda County) since it was designed as a train yard... and Bay Fair's layout can be a challenge since it has flyovers that connect to the median of I-580 for Castro Valley, Dublin, and Pleasanton (which will require a lot of reconfiguration, rerouting, and destroying homes in the San Lorenzo, Hayward, and San Leandro neighborhoods). The biggest challenge: dealing with both the Bay Area Air Quality Management District and the Port of Oakland since you will be routing it close to Oakland International Airport, which will require extensive studies on noise and operational impacts.

@skyfann what do you mean by your question? Can you specify what you want to ask?
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Old November 12th, 2014, 09:15 PM   #835
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How is the economy of San francisco
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Old November 12th, 2014, 10:37 PM   #836
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Quote:
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How is the economy of San francisco
Booming, because of the tech industry.
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Old November 12th, 2014, 10:51 PM   #837
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There was a proposal to rebuild the Dumbarton Rail Bridge and provide a second transbay crossing for passenger rail service, but this has gone nowhere.
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Old November 16th, 2014, 11:36 PM   #838
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Here's some pics of the Cotati SMART Station (exterior complete) and some of the surrounding housing:


Double-tracked






Along the wall runs a small drainage 'wetland' - the parking spaces here are water-permeable brick/pebble






Housing units surround little courtyards like this one


photos by me
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Old November 16th, 2014, 11:44 PM   #839
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Excellent progress! Makes me want to ride the train sooner!
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Old November 17th, 2014, 01:15 AM   #840
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How's the Caltrain tunnel plan? Is it still afloat or has it gone under
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