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Old July 4th, 2015, 04:35 AM   #1041
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Caltrain Board Ups Bike Capacity, Dumps Bathrooms on Electric Trains

I wonder when will these actually come into service

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The Caltrain Board of Directors voted today to increase the share of space on its future electric trains devoted to bike capacity, though the trains may lack bathrooms.

More room for bikes on Caltrain’s electric train cars will let more commuters board with bikes, but they may not have a bathroom on the ride.
The Caltrain board rejected a proposal from its staff to include one bathroom on every six-car train while maintaining the same seat-to-bike ratio that exists today of ten-to-one. After a push from board member Tom Nolan, who is also the chair of the SFMTA Board, that ratio was increased to eight-to-one in the request for proposals from train manufacturers

The board also requested a report on the costs of adding more bathrooms and bike parking at stations.

According to Adina Levin of Friends of Caltrain, however, an estimated $9 million would be needed to provide enough bike parking for 20 percent of Caltrain riders to bike, if trains have an on-board bike capacity ratio of nine-to-one. With the eight-to-one ratio in the RFP, the necessary investment to accommodate 20 percent of passengers won’t be quite so large, but $3 million will certainly fall far short.

While some trains could still include a bathroom, it’s not mandated. Levin and other Caltrain riders were not pleased about the vote against on-board bathrooms
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Old July 4th, 2015, 04:38 AM   #1042
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How long is the ride between San Jose & San Fran?
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Old July 4th, 2015, 04:49 AM   #1043
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How deep is the bay entrance and what is the likelihood of a sub-sea tunnel (like the BART tunnels to Oakland) to connect SMART with San Francisco?
Really ******* deep, the area at the Golden Gate and near the shore of South Marin are collectively some of the deepest areas of the Bay. A Tunnel through there would have to reach depths comparable to the Chunnel or Seikan Tunnel. Thus, the tunnel would ridiculously expensive, especially when combined with the several miles of connecting subway that would be needed on the San Francisco end.

You're better off just building the subway in San Francisco, since that portion would end up benefitting 80-90% of the people that would've used the whole line.
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Old July 4th, 2015, 05:11 AM   #1044
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I believe that there's still some provision built into the Golden Gate Bridge for a pair of tracks through the trusses under the deck. Threading it through the approaches would be hell, but there seems to be a route under the Presidio if you swing south right past the toll plaza.
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Old July 4th, 2015, 05:38 AM   #1045
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Id imagine the Northern Approach would require several miles worth of tunneling... While the Southern route could terminate at a future BART or Muni extension in Marina District. You could use the 101 ROW to save money...
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Old July 4th, 2015, 06:15 AM   #1046
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The main challenge of extending SMART further down to San Francisco: too many local jurisdictions will file lawsuits against such an extension, especially if it will be made at-grade. As you may understand, I, living in Marin County, have some doubts about making such an extension, especially that you will be involving the following:

>> Crossing under Richardson Bay, which separates Mill Valley, Tiburon, and Sausalito;
>> Studying potential corridors that will require underground passages, especially for Corte Madera down to Marin City (which will involve tons of money);
>> Addressing noise and safety concerns, especially along the potential southern extension (Sausalito will be extremely concerned about how it can impact traffic along Broadway if it is done); and
>> The Golden Gate crossing will involve multiple local, state, and federal jurisdictions (including the National Parks Service, Golden Gate National Recreation Area, The Presidio Trust Fund, and City and County of San Francisco, just to name a few), in which litigating such a connection will require thousands of hours of manpower for review, commentary, EIR, etc., a massive bureaucratic mess.

BART could have saved Marin County from the traffic tie ups along US-101 if it elected to join the board and let the trains run through here, but, the density of the county is significantly lower than the counties it currently serves (Alameda, Contra Costa, San Francisco, San Mateo, and soon Santa Clara). Fortunately, we still have the rail lines that are being rehabilitated and reconstructed for shared passenger and freight services, yet I foresee a future where double tracking may be needed between Larkspur and Santa Rosa to cope with potential future growth of communities along the SMART corridor.

I live in Novato, west of the tracks, and SMART is something that has been of deep interest for me for years. As some of you may know, I rely on mass transit to get around, with Golden Gate Transit and Marin Transit being my "home" buses. If SMART grows much faster than anticipated (thanks to shortening commute times and cool features that will make the travel experience worthwhile), then I believe that Golden Gate Transit and Marin Transit will become like SamTrans where both agencies will act as feeder services to communities surrounding SMART stations and beyond, and the other beneficiaries will include:

- Sonoma County Transit
- Petaluma Transit
- Santa Rosa CityBus
- Paratransit services
- Golden Gate Ferry
- Mendocino Transit Authority (yes, it provides two services to Santa Rosa daily)

I believe that, over time, SMART could become the next Caltrain, a commuter lifeline that will spark further economic growth and social diversification in the North Bay.

==========

Additional commentary on the service south of Larkspur Ferry will be provided by request.
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Old July 4th, 2015, 06:19 AM   #1047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
How long is the ride between San Jose & San Fran?
Depends on the service type you get.

Local: around 75 to 90 minutes
Limited Stop (weekdays only): around 65 to 80 minutes
Baby Bullet: around 58 to 65 minutes

And by the way, you don't have to take Caltrain all the way just to get to and from San Francisco. You can board Caltrain at Millbrae (which is my favorite), in which you can switch between it and BART for even more connections (SFO Airport, north San Mateo County, Mission and Market Streets in SF, and the East Bay).
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Old July 4th, 2015, 06:24 AM   #1048
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Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
Is it possible for the SMART Rail to one day be extended up to Ukiah?
That would be a bit problematic, especially, as FDW said, Mendocino County is not part of the SMART District. However, it can leverage with the Golden Gate Bridge, Highway, and Transportation District (District) and have it work alongside SMART to allow it to develop a future extension further north to Ukiah since Mendocino and Del Norte Counties are part of the same district (which also consists of San Francisco, Marin, and Sonoma Counties).

Similarly, Napa County can also work with GGBHTD to allow SMART to provide future service to the City of Napa and collaborate with Amtrak to "close the railway gap" between Solano and Marin Counties. However, this will mean a lot of litigation from the State and local jurisdictions since rebuilding an abandoned rail line will involve more than just laying out new tracks... you've got to rebuild bridges and stations to make it all happen, which take time.
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Old July 4th, 2015, 06:39 AM   #1049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
Depends on the service type you get.

Local: around 75 to 90 minutes
Limited Stop (weekdays only): around 65 to 80 minutes
Baby Bullet: around 58 to 65 minutes

And by the way, you don't have to take Caltrain all the way just to get to and from San Francisco. You can board Caltrain at Millbrae (which is my favorite), in which you can switch between it and BART for even more connections (SFO Airport, north San Mateo County, Mission and Market Streets in SF, and the East Bay).
How much time will be shaved off once the line goes Electric?
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Old July 4th, 2015, 06:50 AM   #1050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
That would be a bit problematic, especially, as FDW said, Mendocino County is not part of the SMART District. However, it can leverage with the Golden Gate Bridge, Highway, and Transportation District (District) and have it work alongside SMART to allow it to develop a future extension further north to Ukiah since Mendocino and Del Norte Counties are part of the same district (which also consists of San Francisco, Marin, and Sonoma Counties).

Similarly, Napa County can also work with GGBHTD to allow SMART to provide future service to the City of Napa and collaborate with Amtrak to "close the railway gap" between Solano and Marin Counties. However, this will mean a lot of litigation from the State and local jurisdictions since rebuilding an abandoned rail line will involve more than just laying out new tracks... you've got to rebuild bridges and stations to make it all happen, which take time.
So you would like to see a Rail line run from Lakspur to Napa? I would also have a line run from Larkspur to Stockton via Vallejo and a New Double Decker I-80 Bridge over the Carquinez Strait...tunneled onto the tracks the run along the South bank of the Strait all the way to Stockton.
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Old July 4th, 2015, 07:33 AM   #1051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
How much time will be shaved off once the line goes Electric?
Give around 5 to 15 minutes, depending on service type.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
So you would like to see a Rail line run from Lakspur to Napa? I would also have a line run from Larkspur to Stockton via Vallejo and a New Double Decker I-80 Bridge over the Carquinez Strait...tunneled onto the tracks the run along the South bank of the Strait all the way to Stockton.
Sure. It will involve rehabbing the old Petaluma River Rail Bridge, reconstructing the old track between Novato and Sonoma, and reconfiguring the rail line to eventually serve the City of Napa. I believe this will have less problems than extending the rail south of Larkspur Ferry since many of the areas that this rail line goes by is sparsely populated.

As for Larkspur to Stockton... that will involve backtracking, especially that you already have existing rail tracks near Fairfield/Suisun City Amtrak. I would instead rehabilitate the tracks west of Fairfield and find a way to connect it with the existing Napa Wine Train service. From there, it can continue west towards Sonoma County.
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Old July 4th, 2015, 10:59 AM   #1052
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Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
Give around 5 to 15 minutes, depending on service type.
Actually it'll be larger than that since they're doing level boarding.
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Old July 4th, 2015, 01:08 PM   #1053
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Are the Smart rail crossings quiet?
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Old July 4th, 2015, 07:46 PM   #1054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
The main challenge of extending SMART further down to San Francisco: too many local jurisdictions will file lawsuits against such an extension, especially if it will be made at-grade. As you may understand, I, living in Marin County, have some doubts about making such an extension, especially that you will be involving the following:

>> Crossing under Richardson Bay, which separates Mill Valley, Tiburon, and Sausalito;
>> Studying potential corridors that will require underground passages, especially for Corte Madera down to Marin City (which will involve tons of money);
>> Addressing noise and safety concerns, especially along the potential southern extension (Sausalito will be extremely concerned about how it can impact traffic along Broadway if it is done); and
>> The Golden Gate crossing will involve multiple local, state, and federal jurisdictions (including the National Parks Service, Golden Gate National Recreation Area, The Presidio Trust Fund, and City and County of San Francisco, just to name a few), in which litigating such a connection will require thousands of hours of manpower for review, commentary, EIR, etc., a massive bureaucratic mess.

BART could have saved Marin County from the traffic tie ups along US-101 if it elected to join the board and let the trains run through here, but, the density of the county is significantly lower than the counties it currently serves (Alameda, Contra Costa, San Francisco, San Mateo, and soon Santa Clara). Fortunately, we still have the rail lines that are being rehabilitated and reconstructed for shared passenger and freight services, yet I foresee a future where double tracking may be needed between Larkspur and Santa Rosa to cope with potential future growth of communities along the SMART corridor.

I live in Novato, west of the tracks, and SMART is something that has been of deep interest for me for years. As some of you may know, I rely on mass transit to get around, with Golden Gate Transit and Marin Transit being my "home" buses. If SMART grows much faster than anticipated (thanks to shortening commute times and cool features that will make the travel experience worthwhile), then I believe that Golden Gate Transit and Marin Transit will become like SamTrans where both agencies will act as feeder services to communities surrounding SMART stations and beyond, and the other beneficiaries will include:

- Sonoma County Transit
- Petaluma Transit
- Santa Rosa CityBus
- Paratransit services
- Golden Gate Ferry
- Mendocino Transit Authority (yes, it provides two services to Santa Rosa daily)

I believe that, over time, SMART could become the next Caltrain, a commuter lifeline that will spark further economic growth and social diversification in the North Bay.

==========

Additional commentary on the service south of Larkspur Ferry will be provided by request.
Request.

The right of way is largely intact to Sausalito (on Google Maps), albeit used for a trail.

And what about the old line up to San Anselmo and Manor?
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Old July 4th, 2015, 08:22 PM   #1055
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Are the Smart rail crossings quiet?
The major crossings near residential areas are quiet zone ready.
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Old July 4th, 2015, 08:38 PM   #1056
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If the early section of the line is about 1 hour, a Cloverdale-San Francisco run would be about 2 hours.

I'm guessing that service to Tiburon is unlikely?

If we had Tiburon, San Anselmo/Fairfax, Sebastopol, Cloverdale, Sonoma, Napa/Calistoga, and Vallejo, we'd start to have a VERY impressive network on the North Shore!
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Old July 4th, 2015, 08:38 PM   #1057
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Quote:
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Actually it'll be larger than that since they're doing level boarding.
Note though that there may be speed restrictions in place as the CAHSR will also use the same tracks (if not parallel to Caltrain's tracks) all along the Peninsula. Those restrictions may be in place once you hit Atherton or San Bruno where noise sensitivity measures are enforced. With the added service, though, I hope Caltrain can emulate what Tokyo is doing with its trains on the JR Chūo Line where multiple variants are available (from local all the way to Super Expresses)... But, I think the HSR should have its own dedicated track along the Caltrain corridor to lessen its trip times.
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Old July 4th, 2015, 08:52 PM   #1058
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Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
Request.

The right of way is largely intact to Sausalito (on Google Maps), albeit used for a trail.

And what about the old line up to San Anselmo and Manor?
That would be good. But, again, how many lawsuits will be made to convert the trail into an active rail line again? Plus, with SMART's commitment to build trails and bike paths next to the rail tracks, how will the trail alignment south of Larkspur be shaped up?

As for the San Anselmo through Manor, unfortunately, it has been converted into a roadway called Railroad Avenue. I can still see the station markers (San Anselmo, Yolanda, and Fairfax Stations), in which those remind me of its past as a rail line... Yet I think it would be better if it is repurposed as a narrow-gauged line, especially that west of Manor, there is hardly any large community (unless we talk about Point Reyes Station).

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
If the early section of the line is about 1 hour, a Cloverdale-San Francisco run would be about 2 hours.

I'm guessing that service to Tiburon is unlikely?

If we had Tiburon, San Anselmo/Fairfax, Sebastopol, Cloverdale, Sonoma, Napa/Calistoga, and Vallejo, we'd start to have a VERY impressive network on the North Shore!
Probably. But, how would you develop service to SF if you have these issues:

- The Golden Gate crossing will involve either redoing the lower deck of the bridge and creating a new subway section in San Francisco
- Tiburon had a chance of building a second bridge connector to San Francisco in the 1960s, but was turned down due to potential loss in residential values (as a result of increased traffic and noise)

There will need to be compromises made along the way between the following stakeholders to make the Golden Gate Crossing possible:

• Marin County
• Cities of Mill Valley, Corte Madera, Larkspur, and Sausalito
• National Parks Service
• Golden Gate National Recreation Area
• The Presidio Trust
• City and County of San Francisco
• Caltrans
• Metropolitan Transportation Commisssion
• Bay Area Air Quality Management District
• San Francisco Bay Conservation and Development Commission
• Golden Gate Bridge, Highway, and Transportation District
• San Francisco Municipal Railway

And many more. With each of those agencies, you will need to create public comment periods, draft environmental impact reviews, address potential complaints from residents and businesses, etc., all of which take years from conception to completion.
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Old July 4th, 2015, 08:54 PM   #1059
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As for a comprehensive North Bay rail network, that would be really awesome... The Sonoma County Airport yard may be small though to handle such a vast network. Perhaps we can open new yards in:

• Novato
• Sebastopol

To accommodate additional demand.
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Old July 5th, 2015, 12:05 AM   #1060
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Give around 5 to 15 minutes, depending on service type.
Wow, that would be revolutionary, getting from SJ to SF in 15-ish minutes.
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