daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old May 1st, 2016, 02:13 AM   #1301
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,536
Likes (Received): 21244

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
The funding for that is not currently on the horizon.
Isn't the whole point of Transbay to bring Caltrain to a more central location than the current Fourth and King station?
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old May 1st, 2016, 02:30 AM   #1302
MarshallKnight
Registered User
 
MarshallKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: From the Bay to L.A.
Posts: 2,350
Likes (Received): 3597

It is, but the completed transit center (which serves many agencies from all over the bay) was the priority, and got funded as part of Phase 1. The Caltrain Downtown Extension is Phase 2, and the money isn't there yet.

Here's the latest from the SFCTA on the situation:

Quote:
DOWNTOWN EXTENSION
A team led by Parsons Transportation Group has substantially completed work on preliminary engineering of Phase 2. The DTX was originally scheduled for completion in 2019; however, work is on hold due to a significant funding gap. However, work continues on the Supplemental EIS/EIR and coordination with Caltrain and the California High Speed Rail Authority.

In 2012, the Metropolitan Transportation Commission (MTC) identified DTX as only one of two new regional priorities for New Starts funds in Plan Bay Area, the Regional Transportation Plan/Sustainable Communities Strategy that MTC adopted in July 2013. The regional endorsement of DTX helps to position the project well to receive federal funding in the highly competitive federal New Starts program.

TJPA is exploring the feasibility of alternative project delivery options, including Public Private Partnership (P3) as means to reduce cost and accelerate delivery. Authority staff will continue to work closely with TJPA, the City, and other funding partners to support delivery of Phase 1 and to advance strategies to close the funding gap for Phase 2.
__________________

dimlys1994 liked this post
MarshallKnight no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 7th, 2016, 09:20 AM   #1303
dimlys1994
Moderator
 
dimlys1994's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dniepropetrovsk
Posts: 16,342
Likes (Received): 26132

Central Subway update:

__________________
Для Вас:
Страница в ВК:

For you:
Facebook & Flickr pages

TM_Germany liked this post
dimlys1994 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 26th, 2016, 05:59 PM   #1304
Woonsocket54
PC LOAD LETTER
 
Woonsocket54's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: East Millinocket, Maine
Posts: 5,644
Likes (Received): 5762

Birthday wishes

Happy 40th birthday to Embarcadero station, which opened 1976.05.27. This was the last BART station to open in San Francisco. Muni service did not begin until 1980.
Woonsocket54 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 26th, 2016, 06:07 PM   #1305
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,536
Likes (Received): 21244

Which rail service has a better reputation within San Francisco (city)? BART or MUNI (excluding cable cars and obviously buses)?
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 26th, 2016, 09:46 PM   #1306
Woonsocket54
PC LOAD LETTER
 
Woonsocket54's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: East Millinocket, Maine
Posts: 5,644
Likes (Received): 5762

BART only has eight stops in San Francisco and thus can only serve a limited area of the city. I am not sure it can be compared to Muni Metro. If traveling downtown from the Mission, Glen Park or Balboa Park, then BART is obviously a better choice than Muni since it provides faster service.
Woonsocket54 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2016, 10:46 PM   #1307
Woonsocket54
PC LOAD LETTER
 
Woonsocket54's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: East Millinocket, Maine
Posts: 5,644
Likes (Received): 5762

BART tweeted the Golden Gate Bridge a happy birthday - saying they would have been great together.



https://twitter.com/SFBART/status/736263744632692737
__________________

dimlys1994, TM_Germany, will101 liked this post
Woonsocket54 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2016, 11:36 PM   #1308
00Zy99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,980
Likes (Received): 1507

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
BART tweeted the Golden Gate Bridge a happy birthday - saying they would have been great together.



https://twitter.com/SFBART/status/736263744632692737
Well, who knows. Maybe something SMART will happen around there.
00Zy99 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2016, 06:35 AM   #1309
Nexis
Dark Wolf
 
Nexis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Along the Rails of North Jersey..
Posts: 15,688
Likes (Received): 17037

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
Well, who knows. Maybe something SMART will happen around there.
I think BART should at least be extended up to LakeSpur Ferry terminal using the 101 ROW.
__________________
My FLICKR Page < 54,100+ Photos of Urban Renewal , Infrastructure , Food and Nature in the Northeastern US
Visit the Reorganized New York City Section
My Photography Website
Visit the New Jersey Section
Nexis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2016, 07:15 AM   #1310
00Zy99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,980
Likes (Received): 1507

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
I think BART should at least be extended up to LakeSpur Ferry terminal using the 101 ROW.
I was talking about extending SMART down from Larkspur to San Francisco and interchanging with Caltrain.
00Zy99 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2016, 11:12 AM   #1311
sdery
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: San Diego
Posts: 127
Likes (Received): 54

How significantly would the GG bridge need to be modified to support BART or SMART trains? The rendering posted above suggested very little might to be done and I would assume major modifications would likely face a backlash given the status of the GG bridge as a defining image of the SF area.
sdery está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2016, 02:46 PM   #1312
phoenixboi08
Registered User
 
phoenixboi08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,550
Likes (Received): 798

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdery View Post
How significantly would the GG bridge need to be modified to support BART or SMART trains? The rendering posted above suggested very little might to be done and I would assume major modifications would likely face a backlash given the status of the GG bridge as a defining image of the SF area.
Given that it's a suspension bridge, I suppose it would probably be rather difficult - since it would be adding a significant amount of weight to the road deck?
__________________
MCRP '16
phoenixboi08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2016, 04:51 PM   #1313
00Zy99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,980
Likes (Received): 1507

The original design plans for the bridge call for a pair of rail tracks to be added. Exactly how they would be added is not entirely clear-some figure show a pair of streetcar tracks in the middle of the roadway, while others show the tracks through the trusses.

There is also some confusion, since I seem to recall one of the designers saying that it wasn't strong enough when they approached him about the initial BART surveys. Then again, he was apparently being very recalcitrant about credit or something.

There is nothing that says that suspension bridges can't carry trains-the Brooklyn, Manhattan, and Williamsburg bridges do, as does the Seto-Ohashi in Japan. So long as you don't go running freight trains over it, I don't think that modifications would be too drastic.
00Zy99 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2016, 06:49 PM   #1314
fieldsofdreams
PH + SF Super Moderator
 
fieldsofdreams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Manila • San Francisco
Posts: 18,821
Likes (Received): 11255

Not much news has been discussed about this:

Since San Francisco Muni is adding more low-floored buses, at least 34 high-floored diesel articulated buses (Neoplan AN460) and all of its ETI-Škoda Tr15SF 60-footer articulated electric trolleybuses have been retired from service, with many of them being sold at auction for parts. This only means one thing: Muni is joining a lot of agencies throughout the country in embracing low-floored buses to make boarding for everyone much easier and accessible.

However, there will be times when a high-floored bus is more suitable because it performs better on the City's hilly streets.
__________________
Anthony or FOD the MOD • Urban Studies & Planning, SF State, UC Berkeley, and San Jose State
Philippine Forums • SF Bay Area Forums • Bay Area Transit • NEW! SF Bay Area and NorCal in Pictures
Photo Albums: Flickr • Photobucket • Instagram

Rohnert Park • Rio Vista • Richmond • Redwood City • Portola Valley • Pleasanton • Pleasant Hill
fieldsofdreams no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2016, 06:55 PM   #1315
fieldsofdreams
PH + SF Super Moderator
 
fieldsofdreams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Manila • San Francisco
Posts: 18,821
Likes (Received): 11255

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
I was talking about extending SMART down from Larkspur to San Francisco and interchanging with Caltrain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdery View Post
How significantly would the GG bridge need to be modified to support BART or SMART trains? The rendering posted above suggested very little might to be done and I would assume major modifications would likely face a backlash given the status of the GG bridge as a defining image of the SF area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixboi08 View Post
Given that it's a suspension bridge, I suppose it would probably be rather difficult - since it would be adding a significant amount of weight to the road deck?
If it were me, the extension of SMART through southern Marin County will actually involve two bridges instead of just one:

• A Richardson Bay crossing
• A Golden Gate Strait crossing

You will also need to discuss your plans with the following communities and organizations along the way, namely:

• Marin County (in particular Strawberry, Tamalpais Valley, and Marin City)
• Larkspur and Corte Madera
• Mill Valley
• Tiburon and Belvedere
• Sausalito
• Golden Gate National Recreation Area (Federal)
• Presidio Trust (Federal)
• City and County of San Francisco

To make that happen. And, alignment-wise, would you rather have it all overground, all underground, or a mixture of the two? Heck, most of SMART's routing is single-track, making additional service contingent to purchasing even more land for right-of-way.
__________________
Anthony or FOD the MOD • Urban Studies & Planning, SF State, UC Berkeley, and San Jose State
Philippine Forums • SF Bay Area Forums • Bay Area Transit • NEW! SF Bay Area and NorCal in Pictures
Photo Albums: Flickr • Photobucket • Instagram

Rohnert Park • Rio Vista • Richmond • Redwood City • Portola Valley • Pleasanton • Pleasant Hill
fieldsofdreams no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2016, 08:42 PM   #1316
MarshallKnight
Registered User
 
MarshallKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: From the Bay to L.A.
Posts: 2,350
Likes (Received): 3597

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
IAnd, alignment-wise, would you rather have it all overground, all underground, or a mixture of the two? Heck, most of SMART's routing is single-track, making additional service contingent to purchasing even more land for right-of-way.
My gut says the best thing would be to run along the 101 median from San Rafael to the incline, then tunnel under the hill (does this hill have a name, btw?) on approach to the Golden Gate, and link the tunnel to the underside of the bridge as pictured above.

Yes, freeway-running trains are kind of lame, but it's not like the SMART needs to weave into the urban fabric of Marin -- most commuters are going to be park-and-riding anyway.
MarshallKnight no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2016, 09:39 PM   #1317
Amexpat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oslo
Posts: 63
Likes (Received): 31

Speaking of trains on bridges, how come train tracks weren't added to the East Bay Bridge when huge sums were used on the rebuilt? I know they used to have a street car on it years ago. Seems they could have either extended Caltrain to the East Bay or make a new BART line. The trans bay tube for BART is at capacity, so this should have been a cheaper solution than building a new tunnel for BART.
__________________

MarshallKnight liked this post
Amexpat no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2016, 09:39 PM   #1318
MrAronymous
Registered User
 
MrAronymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,981
Likes (Received): 6087

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
However, there will be times when a high-floored bus is more suitable because it performs better on the City's hilly streets.
Why?
MrAronymous no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 2nd, 2016, 12:38 AM   #1319
00Zy99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,980
Likes (Received): 1507

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
If it were me, the extension of SMART through southern Marin County will actually involve two bridges instead of just one:

• A Richardson Bay crossing
• A Golden Gate Strait crossing

You will also need to discuss your plans with the following communities and organizations along the way, namely:

• Marin County (in particular Strawberry, Tamalpais Valley, and Marin City)
• Larkspur and Corte Madera
• Mill Valley
• Tiburon and Belvedere
• Sausalito
• Golden Gate National Recreation Area (Federal)
• Presidio Trust (Federal)
• City and County of San Francisco

To make that happen. And, alignment-wise, would you rather have it all overground, all underground, or a mixture of the two? Heck, most of SMART's routing is single-track, making additional service contingent to purchasing even more land for right-of-way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarshallKnight View Post
My gut says the best thing would be to run along the 101 median from San Rafael to the incline, then tunnel under the hill (does this hill have a name, btw?) on approach to the Golden Gate, and link the tunnel to the underside of the bridge as pictured above.

Yes, freeway-running trains are kind of lame, but it's not like the SMART needs to weave into the urban fabric of Marin -- most commuters are going to be park-and-riding anyway.
The old NWP right of way is still intact, and has room for two tracks most of the way, down from Larkspur via Baltimore Park and Corte Madera to the edge of Sausalito, about where you need to start turning off for a climbing tunnel to the bridge. Putting those tracks back in shouldn't be much harder than putting them into San Rafael.

I would say to re-open the Fairfax/Manor/Point Reyes line while they were at it, but that's going a bit too far, don't you think?

Also, if my quick back-of-the-napkin looks at Google Maps Terrain are accurate, then it is possible to have a fully underground route under the Presidio, which is then a straightforward reach to the Transbay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amexpat View Post
Speaking of trains on bridges, how come train tracks weren't added to the East Bay Bridge when huge sums were used on the rebuilt? I know they used to have a street car on it years ago. Seems they could have either extended Caltrain to the East Bay or make a new BART line. The trans bay tube for BART is at capacity, so this should have been a cheaper solution than building a new tunnel for BART.
It was considered, and I believe that provision was left in, but the ten car lanes currently present are themselves at capacity, and rail would take away two lanes on the lower deck of the twin suspension bridges.
__________________

MarshallKnight liked this post
00Zy99 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 2nd, 2016, 02:27 AM   #1320
phoenixboi08
Registered User
 
phoenixboi08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,550
Likes (Received): 798

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
There is nothing that says that suspension bridges can't carry trains-the Brooklyn, Manhattan, and Williamsburg bridges do, as does the Seto-Ohashi in Japan. So long as you don't go running freight trains over it, I don't think that modifications would be too drastic.
Right, if they're designed to carry the extra load. My point was only that I don't think the GG was designed as such, but I'm not entirely certain.

The Verrazano has the same issue, I think.
__________________
MCRP '16
phoenixboi08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
bart, muni, sacramento, san francisco, smart

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium