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Old February 8th, 2012, 02:53 AM   #101
hofburg
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keber knows about it. I didn't mention the grade separated interchange in Kranj, because that road (Kranj bypass) was built later with motorway A2 in 80s.

italystf: only people who live in Medvode or Skofja Loka use that road, nobody else. it was the same before, vignette system doesn't change here anything.
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Old February 8th, 2012, 03:18 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Interesting. You have an unclear knowledge about a road that connect your city with another. I guess you take the motorway every time you go to Kranj, thanks to the yearly vignette system. Unfortunately in Italy, the toll system force us to know very well all state roads in our region.
No, I've driven on that road many times, but your questions were details for me, because I don't really care, if bicycles or pedestrians are allowed there (you don't see them there anyway) and there's no significant at-grade intersection between Kranj and Medvode. As for pavement, I know they were asphalting that short road kilometre by kilometre for years, so now I'm not sure, whether it's finished or not. But you're right, I haven't driven there since we have vignettes and that's at least 3.5 years.
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Old February 8th, 2012, 03:37 AM   #103
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I think italystf meant that one about your knowledge in a positive way, i.e. it's good we have vignette we're not 'forced' to use local roads.
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Old February 8th, 2012, 04:37 AM   #104
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Yes, I know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
btw, wasn't that road built in '40 already?
Now I see it was built in 1939, so not by Hitler. I'd say the first Italian-like motorway/expressway was Ljubljana-Zagreb from 1958.

Last edited by Verso; February 8th, 2012 at 04:43 AM.
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Old February 8th, 2012, 11:16 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Yes, I know.

Now I see it was built in 1939, so not by Hitler. I'd say the first Italian-like motorway/expressway was Ljubljana-Zagreb from 1958.
But the truth is, it was financed with German money.
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Old February 8th, 2012, 11:48 AM   #106
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wow that was soon!
first in the world actually
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Old February 8th, 2012, 11:56 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
A1 motorway, Romania (opened in 1973):
The picture captured perfectly the Romania entrepreneurial spirit which still thrives today
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Old February 8th, 2012, 05:50 PM   #108
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But the truth is, it was financed with German money.
Probably because Germans knew they'd need it two years later.
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Old February 8th, 2012, 06:02 PM   #109
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Chile: 68 National Highway, Santiago - Valparaiso (110 km) opened in 1971.



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Old February 8th, 2012, 06:40 PM   #110
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i am not sure in this, especially for section Zagreb - Beograd. do you know where it was not grade separated?
I had passed in 1986 & 1987. There were several level junctions from Kuzmin up to at least Slavonski Brod or even a bit further towards Zagreb.
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Old February 9th, 2012, 09:52 AM   #111
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Highway Tte. Gral. Richieri A-002 (Buenos Aires (Gral Paz Highway)-Ezeiza International Airport) opened in 1948


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Old February 9th, 2012, 01:10 PM   #112
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That is also the first motorway of South America, although the first carriageway of SP-150 between Sao Paulo and Santos already opened in 1947, but it wasn't a motorway until 1953. Several motorways opened in 1953 in South America, including the SP-330 between Sao Paulo and Campinas and Autopista Caracas - La Guaira in Venezuela.
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Old February 9th, 2012, 04:23 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
If we go by Italian definition, then our first "motorway" was the old Ljubljana-Kranj road built by Hitler.


http://www.panoramio.com/photo/11829501
In Croatia, we had three similar roads (ok, there are some remnants):
1. Zagreb (Črnomerec)-Podsused-Samobor-Bregana, built in year 1940, also known as the Concrete Road (Betonska cesta in Croatian);
2. Zagreb (Dubrava)-Sesvete-Dugo Selo, built in year 1940;
3. Zagreb (Remetinec)-Lučko, built in year 1941 or 1942, upgraded in 1972 to a city expressway, today known as the Adria Avenue (Jadranska avenija in Croatian).
In the time of opening, all three roads was known as "Autobahns" (Autopruga in Croatian, which is literally Autobahn in German). However, they do not deserve to be considered as first motorways in Croatia, because they did have only one lane and didn't have separated crossings and interchanges. For example, the Concrete Road in Podsused shared the old Sava bridge with narrow-gauge railroad from Zagreb to Samobor. Consequently, every time when railway passed the bridge, it was closed for road traffic.
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Old February 9th, 2012, 06:59 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darko06 View Post
2. Zagreb (Dubrava)-Sesvete-Dugo Selo, built in year 1940;
i knew for this one that was built in that period by Germans, but I wasn't sure.
it was made in concrete untill Dugo Selo, and through Dugo Selo road was made in stone blocks. i remember driving on it in 90es.
the last remaining part in concrete was on this straight part between Dugo Selo and Kobiljak, but I think it was replaced with asphalt.
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Old February 9th, 2012, 09:22 PM   #115
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The first motorway in Latvia, as strange as it could spund was opened Soviet times, it was current A2 from Riga to Sigulda. Though it's motorway status was revoked sometime in 1980's or 1990's.
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Old February 10th, 2012, 02:26 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
That is also the first motorway of South America, although the first carriageway of SP-150 between Sao Paulo and Santos already opened in 1947, but it wasn't a motorway until 1953. Several motorways opened in 1953 in South America, including the SP-330 between Sao Paulo and Campinas and Autopista Caracas - La Guaira in Venezuela.
Yes, in Latin America probably
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Old February 10th, 2012, 03:36 AM   #117
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i knew for this one that was built in that period by Germans, but I wasn't sure.
WWII in Yugoslavia started in 1941.
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Old February 10th, 2012, 10:49 AM   #118
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I'm almost certain that pre-2nd-w-war "autostrada-like" roads were built with German technology and workforce (at least engineers) as Yugoslavia was third world like country.

Those concrete roads had much better quality than B&U road built in 50ies and 60ies and many were repaved just recently.
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Old February 10th, 2012, 12:53 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
I'm almost certain that pre-2nd-w-war "autostrada-like" roads were built with German technology and workforce (at least engineers) as Yugoslavia was third world like country.

Those concrete roads had much better quality than B&U road built in 50ies and 60ies and many were repaved just recently.
You're right.
These roads were built by construction company Antun Res in the final years before the WW2 came into Yugoslavia. This company had German technology and necessary machines of building concrete pavements.
In those years every of these three roads was also nicknamed "Res' Road" (in Croatian Resova cesta); my grandfather told me so.
I wrote somewhere that the communists nationalised this company when they came to power after the WW2 and with this know-how they build the "Brotherhood & Unity 'Motorway' " between Zagreb and Belgrade.
I think that this 'motorway' also had the same width as Res' Roads.
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Old February 10th, 2012, 01:24 PM   #120
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So we can conclude that first three motorways build in the Socialist Federative Republic of Yugoslavia were, in order of opening:
1. Vrhnika-Postojna, 1972.
2. Orehovica-Kikovica, 1972.; today expressway-part of Rijeka Beltway
3. Zagreb-Karlovac, 1972.; Remetinec service station-Lučko toll station as expressway: they forgot to build Hrvatski Leskovac overpass so there was a signal crossing before the Lučko toll booths; Lučko-Karlovac as motorway (interchange Jastrebarsko was opened later)
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