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Old July 6th, 2010, 12:31 AM   #61
manrush
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Will the DART underground be running modified trains that have either more longitudinal seating or more than two doors on each side?
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Old July 6th, 2010, 02:06 PM   #62
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Afaik, the trains will likely have similar configuration to existing ones. What the tunnel does is provide the link between two new DART lines, so it will be along the route of one of them, using its trains of course. However, large amounts of new rolling stock will be bought and it remains to be seen how they look or are configured.

Dublin does not tend to go for longitudinal seating though, Ive wondered what the advantages of this arrangement are and why its not used here. Any idea?
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Old July 6th, 2010, 05:27 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saoró... View Post
Afaik, the trains will likely have similar configuration to existing ones. What the tunnel does is provide the link between two new DART lines, so it will be along the route of one of them, using its trains of course. However, large amounts of new rolling stock will be bought and it remains to be seen how they look or are configured.

Dublin does not tend to go for longitudinal seating though, Ive wondered what the advantages of this arrangement are and why its not used here. Any idea?
As far as I know, longitudinal seating creates more space in the interior, thus allowing for more standing room. This, in turn, decreases dwell time.

Usually, longitudinal seating is good during the peak hours, when the train fills up fast and cannot afford to sit at one station for too long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FabriFlorence View Post
Hamburg U-bahn is not a light metro, is a full metro.
Whoops. Wrong choice of words on my part. I meant to say smaller profile metro, not light metro. So basically, I still think that Metro North will be more similar to the Copenhagen Metro and the Hamburg U-bahn in that it will be a heavy rail metro, but it will have smaller rolling stock than the DART.

Last edited by manrush; July 12th, 2010 at 11:37 PM.
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Old October 22nd, 2010, 04:58 PM   #64
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DUBLIN | Metro

Two new Metro lines are currently planned for Dublin. Metro North and Metro West. Metro North is mostly underground and 18kms long - It will serve the city's airport and Northern suburbs. Metro West is intended to be a sort of ring around the city.













A decision on Metro North line is expected next week and construction should begin in April next year. It has been a long planning process.

Meanwhile a Railway Order application will be submitted for Metro West on the 29th of October.



Metro North map

http://www.rpa.ie/Documents/Metro%20...ro%20North.pdf

Metro West map

http://www.rpa.ie/Maps/Metro%20West/...200108.map.pdf

There is another very important underground project which can be seen in this thread

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1162595


More info on Metro inc images and things here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=709326
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Last edited by odlum833; October 23rd, 2010 at 05:10 AM.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 01:17 AM   #65
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Wow, certainly a large expansion to the network. How does this integrate with the existing LUAS system?
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 05:13 AM   #66
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Metro North connects the two luas lines in the city center. Very important. It will also connect with DART underground.




Why did a mod change the title of this thread? It's about the Metro - not general public transport.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 06:47 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odlum833 View Post
Why did a mod change the title of this thread? It's about the Metro - not general public transport.
Most cities start off with the Metro, then move on and discuss about general public transport, and so generally, if cities do not have other threads, it's just named public transport.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 06:59 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
Most cities start off with the Metro, then move on and discuss about general public transport, and so generally, if cities do not have other threads, it's just named public transport.
There is another thread on DART underground. Also there is trams etc.....but this is about a specific Metro project. Not public transport. How many threads do you want!? I can start another on trams. This is for this specific project. Not about buses, trams or trains.

Can you please change the title back. This is about the Metro project only. Nothing else. That is why I started it.

Each of these are enormous projects. They are huge by Global standards. Each deserves a dedicated thread.


Id just like you to change the title back please. Id appreciate it very much
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Last edited by odlum833; October 23rd, 2010 at 07:10 AM.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 07:03 AM   #69
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Bump! Sorry but proving a point on another thread.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 07:36 AM   #70
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I don't want a thread to be started and then buried over because conversations of other projects happen in other threads. I'm not saying this project isn't important, but if there's low activity, it gets combined with other threads. And I'm not picking on Dublin, but all other city threads have come under these stricter guidelines now. My job as a moderator is to clean up the Subways Forum and implement what Matthieu, one of SSC's administrators, has started. The concept is simple: cities have one thread for all their transportation discussions, except for larger cities such as London and Hong Kong, where there are continuous updates and generate a lot of discussion. Even then, London has one thread for all DLR and Underground discussions and one thread for all network rail discussions.

So what's probably going to happen over the next few days is that this along with the DART Underground thread will be combined.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 07:57 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
I don't want a thread to be started and then buried over because conversations of other projects happen in other threads. I'm not saying this project isn't important, but if there's low activity, it gets combined with other threads. And I'm not picking on Dublin, but all other city threads have come under these stricter guidelines now. My job as a moderator is to clean up the Subways Forum and implement what Matthieu, one of SSC's administrators, has started. The concept is simple: cities have one thread for all their transportation discussions, except for larger cities such as London and Hong Kong, where there are continuous updates and generate a lot of discussion. Even then, London has one thread for all DLR and Underground discussions and one thread for all network rail discussions.

So what's probably going to happen over the next few days is that this along with the DART Underground thread will be combined.

But they are giant projects. The Dublin Metro will be by far the largest project in the EU next year. And the DART underground is basically the same as London's crossrail.

If these two projects were smaller I would agree. But they are not. They are huge.

Also the Ireland forum was only started recently. It is growing but obviously it takes time to filter down. I don't want these projects in one thread because they are so big and complicated that other users will lose track (pardon the pun!) and switch off. We have a transport forum in the Ireland section.........but we also have dedicated threads for these projects. And it works very well.

In my view these projects should not be in the one thread. They are too big and complicated. Please keep it to two threads. One for DART underground the other for Metro. They are two completely different big projects.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 08:26 AM   #72
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The thing is, most of your transportation discussion occurs in your local forums. The Subways & Urban Transport Forum isn't meant to compete with local discussions; the forum is essentially to show off to the international SSC community.

And like I said, I'm not undermining the size and importance of these projects. And definitely, I agree these are big projects; I'm quite surprised they are so big actually. But you have to know, there are so many other cities with big projects: London has Crossrail, Hong Kong has their Rail network extension and expansion, etc.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 01:34 AM   #73
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Thanks for the reply. Fair enough
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Old October 25th, 2010, 02:47 PM   #74
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What are the actual chances of these projects going ahead? Are they fully funded, or mere vote winning exercises (as what happens in Australian cities...)?

Now would be the best time for Ireland to invest money in key infrastructure. But I'd be happily surprised to see if the political will was there to fund such massive projects at the same time.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 05:32 PM   #75
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That suspension bridge on the Metro West (1:55 in the video) is absolutely badass!
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Old October 28th, 2010, 03:25 PM   #76
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Quote:
An Bord Pleanála gives Metro North go ahead
Updated: 12:23, Thursday, 28 October 2010

The multi-billion-euro Metro North project in Dublin has been given the green light by An Bord Pleanála.

The rail link from St Stephen's Green to Swords now faces final approval from the Government on a cost benefit analysis.

The infrastructure project is described as the biggest in the history of the State and the ruling from An Bord Pleanála runs to 1,700 pages.

The board has given permission for an underground track from St Stephen's Green to north of Ballymun where it will cross the M50 on a flyover.

It will go underground at Dublin Airport stopping at a centralised transport hub before going overground again to Swords with some of the line on stilts due to the undulating landscape.

The board has eliminated two stops at Belinstown and Seatown and ordered the relocation of a depot and park-and-ride facility.

It wants the park-and-ride facility and depot moved from Belinstown, which is north of Swords, because of the risk of flooding.

The overall 18km line has therefore been shortened by 2.3km.

The final plan for the underground section at Ballymun and the stop at O'Connell Street also need to be finalised.

But it is the proposed 'big dig' in the city centre, involving moving statues like the O'Connell monument and closing off part of St Stephen's Green, that is causing concern to some businesses.

Enabling works on underground utility lines is due to start next spring, while the construction itself is scheduled to last from 2012 to 2016.

The overall estimated cost has varied from €5bn at the height of the boom to €3bn now with reduced construction costs.

Supporters point out that because it will be a public-private partnership the initial cost will be taken by the private operator. The Rail Procurement Agency will have to make a final decision between two consortiums - Celtic Metro Group and Metro Express - in coming months.

A number of economic studies have been carried out by the RPA with the latest showing that for every €1 spent on the Metro there will be €2 back in terms of overall economic benefit.

Labour leader Eamon Gilmore has said the Metro North project should be postponed while Transport Minister Noel Dempsey has said it will go ahead subject to a final cost analysis.

The RPA says the line will be able to carry 20,000 passengers an hour with 10km underground providing a journey time of 20 minutes from Dublin Airport to the city centre.

Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1028/metro.html
Quote:
Bord Pleanála approves Metro

ÉANNA Ó CAOLLAÍ

Thu, Oct 28, 2010

An Bord Pleanála has approved plans to build a light rail system from Dublin's city centre to Swords.

The scheme is approved from the Estuary stop in Swords to St Stephen’s Green and included an underground link from the city centre to Ballymun where it will cross the M50 on a flyover bridge.

Significant conditions have been attached to the ruling and three of the stations initially proposed have been refused planning permission. The depot, stop and strategic park and ride facility at Belinstown, the stop at Lissenhall and at Seatown will not be developed.

An Bord Peanála said it considered a depot and headquarters at Lissenhall "would not perform well in strategic transport terms compared with other alternatives available in the vicinity of the airport". It said the fact it would be at the end of the line meant it was "more likely to result in inefficient empty running of metro vehicles and extended travel for staff".

In the ruling, An Bord Pleanála said Belinstown is at a "considerable distance" from Dublin airport or Swords and "would not represent the optimal location for long term efficient economic and environmentally sustainable operation of the rail service".

Permission to build a stop at Seatown was refused as the stops serving Swords "provide an adequate level of service to the town without compromising the service levels of Metro North or future development of the town".

In the interests of visual amenity and public safety, the Drumcondra stop has to be agreed in writing with the Planning Authority before starting the development of this element of the scheme. Some elements of the stop at Swords and O'Connell St are to be reviewed "in the interests of pedestrian safety and free-flow".

The detailed designs of each stop within the administrative area of Fingal County Council are to be submitted to that planning authority for written agreement.

Building will proceed once the Government approves a cost benefit analysis study of the project.

Several city businesses have called on the Government to cancel the project or postpone it until the economy recovers.

Businessman Colm Carroll, who owns nine gift shops in the city centre, has recently launched No To Metro North, a campaign to stop the project that he said would “rip the whole city apart”, costing thousands of jobs and closing firms.

© 2010 irishtimes.com
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Old October 28th, 2010, 08:20 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by deasine View Post
Wow, certainly a large expansion to the network. How does this integrate with the existing LUAS system?
"Certainly", you say ??
You know what ? There is a hard economic crisis in Ireland.
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Old October 28th, 2010, 10:36 PM   #78
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Does anyone know why they propose going for a metro as opposed to simply expanding the tram system along these routes, which would be much cheaper surely? Would a tram system's limitations be more exposed on the proposed routes than on the existing Luas ones, or was there a distinct lack of foresight with the decision to build a tram system as opposed to a city-wide metro?
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Old October 29th, 2010, 12:14 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hughes View Post
Does anyone know why they propose going for a metro as opposed to simply expanding the tram system along these routes, which would be much cheaper surely? Would a tram system's limitations be more exposed on the proposed routes than on the existing Luas ones, or was there a distinct lack of foresight with the decision to build a tram system as opposed to a city-wide metro?
The debate on this issue can be seen in much more detail in the Metro North specific threads in the Ireland forum. The Luas Green line was built on an old railway alignment and the majority of it is segregated from traffic. The Red line runs along an old canal alignment, and in the median of a major dual carriageway for much, so that too has a fair amount of segregation. Both run quick until they get to the city centre and have a significant amount of traffic junctions and some shared road space. The transport planners in Dublin believer (although not all agree) that the alignment of a tram line through north Dublin would be require too much interaction with traffic and therefore have little or no benefit compared to buses. (:
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Old October 29th, 2010, 02:16 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigKingOfireland View Post
The debate on this issue can be seen in much more detail in the Metro North specific threads in the Ireland forum. The Luas Green line was built on an old railway alignment and the majority of it is segregated from traffic. The Red line runs along an old canal alignment, and in the median of a major dual carriageway for much, so that too has a fair amount of segregation. Both run quick until they get to the city centre and have a significant amount of traffic junctions and some shared road space. The transport planners in Dublin believer (although not all agree) that the alignment of a tram line through north Dublin would be require too much interaction with traffic and therefore have little or no benefit compared to buses. (:
I thought it was such.... I seem to remember there was quite a difference between Red and Green average line speeds too, and have long since pondered the genuine effectiveness of trams, especially in the city-centre sections, and noted that Luas' interaction with the city centre was pretty short and direct. I have worked on a few tram systems in design/Installation, and am yet to be convinced by them.
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