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Old December 7th, 2013, 06:42 PM   #2321
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I would not want to live in a 132 year old building. It's a sign that the country isn't advancing regarding the wealth of the people or the infrastructure. 132 year old museums or tourist attractions are fine, but not residential buildings.
A British 132 year old house is likely to be in a better shape than a Chinese 5 year old building, due to the former's regular maintenance and the latter's lack of the same. There are some shoddy construction, but mostly the construction doesn't seem bad, it is the poor maintenance that do them in. The façade in particular gets old really quickly. When freshly built a Chinese building looks really shiny, but after five years it looks like a fifty year old building in Europe.

The apartments themselves can be in exquisite shape, that would be in the owners' interest, while other can look as decrepit as the outside (maybe rented out, and neither the landlord nor tenant don't care so much).
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Old December 8th, 2013, 06:19 AM   #2322
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I wanted to find new information regarding the Sky City. I found a derailed thread quoting a crappy business magazine.

DON'T TAKE CHINA ECONOMIC REVIEW SERIOUSLY. Incomplete information, pre-determined conclusions.

For those who aren't familiar with this (and similar business magazines) throughout the world, China Economic Review (CER) and its contributors are bankrolled by the FIRE industry (Patrick Chovanec is a fawning apologist/prostitute for the real estate industry). Right now, the biggest ongoing debate in the PRC is the proposed and oft-delayed property value tax. The current lack of a property tax is the largest remaining loophole in the PRC's tax laws. The backers of the magazine and its advertisers see the property tax as eroding their own vested interests (read any number of their articles). Casting aspersions on construction quality and planning is just an easy diversion tactic. This particular CER article cites bad construction and the 70-year lease as precursors to a future sprawling dystopia. It's wrong from an urban planning perspective, and it's wrong from a taxation one as well.

Inherent quality is only one contributing factor of building lifespan. 19th Century masonry buildings DO last longer because the prevailing building techniques of that era. The interiors, the plumbing, and the wiring all have to be periodically gutted and rebuilt, but they're still technically long-lasting. Present-day construction techniques in the UK (and the US and China and everywhere else as well) do not result in such permanence. The UK urbanized at an earlier date than the US, and China urbanized much later.

Then you have the ongoing urbanization process in China. The UK urbanized early, and its urban population has been relatively stable for a LONG time. The Northeast and Midwest of the US has long urbanized, and has stable urban populations. Thus it has a much older stock of housing than say, the Southern and Western areas. China's urbanization is the most recent, you do the math.

Then we have the relationship between land leases and sprawl... (in part 3). Hey, might as well write about Singapore's land lease program and its sprawl. Oh wait! You mean that magazine's research is flawed and its conclusion doesn't match empirical evidence?

Then, let's not talk about the quality of a 132 year old British building compared to a 5 year old Chinese one. These gross generalizations are ALWAYS dumb. The generalization is even more dumb when it pertains to the facade.

Humid cooling climates are inherently difficult for building maintenance. There's a lot of condensation, a lot of mold, and facades suffer a lot of cosmetic degradation. Unless the facade is rotting wood (wood and warm humid climates should be avoided) or worse yet, rusting away at structural steel, water stains on facades mean close to nothing.

Miami and Los Angeles are in the same nation and have many similarities in planning and construction. Yet building facades in the humidity and the corrosiveness of Florida degrade much faster than their counterparts in California.
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Old December 8th, 2013, 01:33 PM   #2323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by particlez View Post

Inherent quality is only one contributing factor of building lifespan. 19th Century masonry buildings DO last longer because the prevailing building techniques of that era. The interiors, the plumbing, and the wiring all have to be periodically gutted and rebuilt, but they're still technically long-lasting. Present-day construction techniques in the UK (and the US and China and everywhere else as well) do not result in such permanence. The UK urbanized at an earlier date than the US, and China urbanized much later.
Quote:
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Humid cooling climates are inherently difficult for building maintenance. There's a lot of condensation, a lot of mold, and facades suffer a lot of cosmetic degradation. Unless the facade is rotting wood (wood and warm humid climates should be avoided) or worse yet, rusting away at structural steel, water stains on facades mean close to nothing.
Um, Chinese and Japanese always built their houses of rotting wood in their warm humid climates. They did use some tamped earth, adobe and stone... and it looks like north China has more adobe houses than South. Certainly the mansions, palaces and temples tend to be rotting wood even where the huts are adobe.

But about building quality... look at the places in exact same humid cooling climate which ARE old, even in China.
Like, Shanghai international settlement. Mostly built before 1937, right?

Consider 3 houses next to each other same street of Shanghai and thus same location. One 80 years old (built 1933 in International Settlement), the second 40 years old (built 1973 after Cultural Revolution), the third 20 years old (build 1993, early in the economic boom).

Which of these has higher present value as a building?
Which of these would you rather repair and refurbish to its historic original appearance and quality, and which would you rather raze to the bottom of basement and build a brand new 2013 design house instead?
Now compare the 1933 built house in Shanghai hot and humid climate with a 1933 built house in the cold and humid climate of London or Paris. Has the interbellum Shanghai suffered worse physical decay because of worse climate than Europe?
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Old December 8th, 2013, 02:58 PM   #2324
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Humidity and salinity do indeed effect deeply buildings and structures

..... and then are the economics. Sometimes it makes more sense to just knock buildings over and building something else, sometimes it makes more sense to just maintain the existing structure.
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Old December 11th, 2013, 12:31 AM   #2325
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It seems like the design has been slightly changed.The antenna/spire looks different. It also seems more massive. Atleast it shows this isnt dead and the article confirms that a 100 stories tower is under construction(might be J97) to prove to the chinese government that they have the ability to construct supertall structures.

http://blog.kryton.com/2013/12/sky-c...ning-in-china/
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Old December 11th, 2013, 09:56 AM   #2326
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The design doesn't look new to me, we have that one for a while now
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Old December 11th, 2013, 10:02 AM   #2327
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Originally Posted by KillerZavatar View Post
The design doesn't look new to me, we have that one for a while now
Agree, looks the same as on the other pics.
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Old December 12th, 2013, 12:54 PM   #2328
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Broad Sustainable Buildings are broadening their portfolio to prove they can conquer the entire construction industry by storm

Broad Sustainable buildings builds 10 stories building in 76 hours.


25 stories tower in 8 days.
银川人才大厦T25


New shopping mall under construction by Broad Sustainable buildings & 湖北兴集团 in Xiangyang China Hubei Province.



Broad Group Zhang Yue, president and co-signing ceremony and Hubei Hing Group.


Zhang Yue (right)


World's tallest building Burj Dubai designers and ambitious Zhang Yue, president of China work together to design a new tallest building
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Old December 13th, 2013, 03:21 AM   #2329
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Great news! I was worried this would go on hold indefinitely.
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Old December 13th, 2013, 04:33 PM   #2330
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25 stories in 8 days? Hmmmm.......
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Old December 13th, 2013, 11:50 PM   #2331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
A British 132 year old house is likely to be in a better shape than a Chinese 5 year old building
Come on, no building would look that bad after 5 years.
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Old December 14th, 2013, 02:54 AM   #2332
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That is assuming that a 132 year old building looks bad. It can, as can a building older or younger, but that is a question of build quality and maintenance, not of age. It used to be a rule of thumb that a wood building could be expected to last around 100 years, while a brick, concrete or stone building would last indefinitely. Nowadays I think it is accepted that a wood building can last much longer, though as the material gets replaced it is a question how much original will be left.

The 1890s were for European cities what the 2010s is for Chinese, a time of headless growth. If you look at the old town of any city, most buildings would be from 1880s-1890s, that is around 120-130 years old. That is unless you are at a historical city, where the old town would be significantly older, or a modern town, where the old town would be around 60-80 years old. However the population and urbanisation surge was in the late 19th century and to this day this defines the European urban look, just like the early 20th century defines the American look, and the early 21st century will define the Chinese look, and probably the 2020-2030s the Indian look and so on. They each have their eras of urbanisation, and they will be be set in stone/glass/concrete for a long time to come.

There is an element of natural selection. If there is significant structural problems with a building, or poor craftmanship, it will be clear very early, often within days or months of opening. If those issues cannot be fixed the building will have a poor reputation and likely be demolished within decades. Older buildings are those that have survived that, and scourges of fires, wars, and city planning. They are the survivors, the veterans. Pit a century old building agaist a 5 year old rookie and ask which one of these will be here in the year 2113. Your money should be on the former.

Tall buildings like the planned Sky City are more likely to stay than smaller buildings, because the cost of replacement is so high. But the cheaper they make them the easier they will be replaced. Of course, if it will be built, it will be a first. Unless it proves a horrible mistake it is likely to be a listed building and last for a long time.
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Old December 15th, 2013, 01:02 AM   #2333
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for a building of 100m or below in china there is no reason to build to an amazing high quality, because a building like that won't stay for too long before a more modern building needs to be put into place or maybe a subwayline or something. for tall buildings like skyscrapers the quality is far far advanced to anything old and it really is not comparable at all since no tall buildings existed back than. modern buildings are of lighter materials as well, which gives them also disadvantages in some points, which does not mean that it is a bad thing that they are build. for nature some modern buildings are far more friendly and some old buildings really need updates in heating systems and similar, because issues like that never came up back in the day. in the end it is quite different how we now build buildings although some things stay the same, but too few things to compare buildings just in one category without thinking about other things. also despite western media coverage of all the black sheep out there china's extremely tall buildings do have a quite high standard of construction and with the chinese experience in tall building construction it leads to extremely high quality buildings that often are a masterpiece made by companies around all the world.
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Old December 18th, 2013, 11:27 AM   #2334
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I am glad Broad Sustainable Buildings are engaged in other projects while waiting for the approval of the sky-city project. At least, with these other projects, they can smooth out the rough edges of this new technology and also prove to the Chinese government that they are capable.

And, contrary to some of the criticisms i have seen here saying that "broad sustainable buildings are boxy", I don't think that is a valid argument because when i look at the skyline of New york city, all I see is boxy structures. The only fault i see is that they need to work on the outer cladding/covering of their buildings, which is a minor correction.
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Old December 28th, 2013, 07:20 PM   #2335
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Is it posible that we have any more news about this project ?
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Old December 31st, 2013, 09:17 AM   #2336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
A British 132 year old house is likely to be in a better shape than a Chinese 5 year old building, due to the former's regular maintenance and the latter's lack of the same. There are some shoddy construction, but mostly the construction doesn't seem bad, it is the poor maintenance that do them in. The façade in particular gets old really quickly. When freshly built a Chinese building looks really shiny, but after five years it looks like a fifty year old building in Europe.

The apartments themselves can be in exquisite shape, that would be in the owners' interest, while other can look as decrepit as the outside (maybe rented out, and neither the landlord nor tenant don't care so much).
I suggest you spend more time in the country before making generalizations. you might consider starting off in HK and try convincing them that their five year old buildings look in worse condition that a hundred old building elsewhere.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 01:43 PM   #2337
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HK is the absolute worst example to use in this case...
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 11:24 AM   #2338
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It is now 2014. When the **** do they plan on building it now. Does anyone know the status/ progress they are having with their building permit applications?

Are there any more promising constructions to be started on new tallest buildings of the world?
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 01:57 PM   #2339
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Quote:
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..

New shopping mall under construction by Broad Sustainable buildings & 湖北兴集团 in Xiangyang China Hubei Province.


..
Building 818 meter using this technique is very interesting, but the design is terrible IMO.
The example posted by Gwellbeing is already much better: more colour, more design elements.
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 02:33 PM   #2340
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This being on hold is so boring..........
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