Time to leave the EU?

[Isaac Newell]

Your last paragraph makes a lot of sense, however a concept of England is not the same as an English nation state. However a politically broken England may not have developed a concept of England. Perhaps it was the Normans who really created the concept of England as a counterpoint to conquest.

[mexico86]

Originally Posted by manrush

You call Hugo Chavez a communist dictator and I'm the one who's uninformed?

Clearly you are. Chavez is clearly communist (in terms of policies and being best mates with commie Cuba), closes down TV stations because they don't tow the party line, likes to rule by presidential decree, tries to seize power by military coup (only turning to democracy when his coup fails lol), and modifies the constitution on a whim to allow himself to be president for life. But I suppose you leftists in America (you claim to be liberal but a true liberal would never support tyrannical regimes) aren't really into democracy or freedom, so why am i surprised.

[JackSwan]

there's an article about chavez in this week's economist...the nationalising of whole chunks of the economy have resulted in sizeable drops in productivity. innit.

[Cardinal Hildebrand]

Originally Posted by Isaac Newell

Your last paragraph makes a lot of sense, however a concept of England is not the same as an English nation state. However a politically broken England may not have developed a concept of England. Perhaps it was the Normans who really created the concept of England as a counterpoint to conquest.

It is true, a concept of England is not the same as a nation-state. But a nation-state had already been in existance prior to the conquest (whether with Alfred or his immediate successors). So a concept of England AND a memory of England as a nation-state would have continued in existance. I suspect (although as I say I'm not a fan of 'what-ifs') that considering Edward the Confessor was a weak king (and it was under his reign that fragmentation began), as soon as he was dead a centralised England would have soon remerged again. Remember the Anglo saxon kingdom did far more than it is given credit for. They reformed the monasteries (like the normans) and made a large national record of land holding in the nation (like the normans' domesday book) All very 'nation-statey' stuff.

If you flash forward to the reign of King Stephen in the next century, a three way civil war ravaged the nation for 20 years yet it soon returned to a well ordered centralised nation. I suspect it would have done the same eventually within a generation after the Confessor's death. It did in France (albeit over a longer period.)

Anyway I think people are going to start getting pissed off soon at this thread being derailed. Soooooo how about that EU hey....

[mexico86]

Originally Posted by JackSwan

there's an article about chavez in this week's economist...the nationalising of whole chunks of the economy have resulted in sizeable drops in productivity. innit.

That's no surprise. I always wonder what it will take for western leftists like manrush and red ken to realise what chavez really is. He even wears a red beret ffs.

[JackSwan]

He even wears a red beret ffs.

mere coincidence.

[manrush]

Originally Posted by mexico86

That's no surprise. I always wonder what it will take for western leftists like manrush and red ken to realise what chavez really is. He even wears a red beret ffs.

He's a socialist leader that was elected democratically. Yes, just like Hitler, but the point still stands. Chavez is no Stalin and he is no Castro.

And correlation is not causation by any means.

So, he nationalised some industries. Why don't we go after Sarko and Obama, then. They also nationalised industries in their respective countries.

Jeez, the right will stoop to any low just to prove that any political leader who disagrees with them is a communist.

But I suppose you leftists in America (you claim to be liberal but a true liberal would never support tyrannical regimes) aren't really into democracy or freedom, so why am i surprised.

You rightists never seem to care about the little guy. You only care that the little guy gets your vote. All right wing policies benefit are the parasitic rich and the bloated military-industrial complex.

Also, I laugh at your implication that Chavez is anywhere close to Castro, Pinochet or Franco.

[pricemazda]

Originally Posted by mexico86

That's no surprise. I always wonder what it will take for western leftists like manrush and red ken to realise what chavez really is. He even wears a red beret ffs.

I think lots of countries have nationalised things recently like the UK, Ireland, USA, France, Germany, Greece, Spain, The Netherlands, Belgium...

[Langur]

Chavez intimidates political opponents, holds political prisoners on trumped up charges, has severely curtailed press freedom, has chronically eroded the judiciary in favour of military arbitration, and the country is now rated as the least democratic in South America. The EU has criticised its drift towards authoritarianism under Chavez.

Chavez is also royally fucking up the Venezuelan economy. In a region enjoying GDP growth of ~4%, Venezuela shrank by -2.9% last year, and will shrink by -2.6% this year. Oil production has declined rapidly in recent years. Capital is fleeing abroad. It's a classic example of socialist economic fuckup.

[manrush]

Anyway, enough about Chavez. Let's get back to talking about the EU. Unless there is some way to link the two together.

[mexico86]

Originally Posted by manrush

You rightists never seem to care about the little guy.

I'm not a 'rightist', I am liberal. But I am right on in my analysis!

Originally Posted by pricemazda

I think lots of countries have nationalised things

Indeed they have, but not many are trying to nationalise absolutely everything!

[peppe.pa]

Good Morning, my dear friends!

here's a website mentioned by Italian newspaper "Corriere Della Sera"...

http://www.the-eu-and-me.org.uk/

It's a guide for UK citizens about the EU!

enjoy!

[Sweet Zombie Jesus]

Originally Posted by peppe.pa

Good Morning, my dear friends!

here's a website mentioned by Italian newspaper "Corriere Della Sera"...

http://www.the-eu-and-me.org.uk/

It's a guide for UK citizens about the EU!

enjoy!

I'm worried, why is that little girl over the south-east of England being torn in half? And why does Aberdeen have a giant ATM stuck to it?

[Octoman]

The Eurozone is slowly going bust.

[eddyk]

Originally Posted by peppe.pa

Good Morning, my dear friends!

here's a website mentioned by Italian newspaper "Corriere Della Sera"...

http://www.the-eu-and-me.org.uk/

It's a guide for UK citizens about the EU!

enjoy!

I enjoyed this website.



Todays express headline

[pricemazda]

funny how they don't campaign to get Britons out of Europe. They probably enjoy living in Spain claiming their british pensions.

[Isaac Newell]

Originally Posted by pricemazda

funny how they don't campaign to get Britons out of Europe. They probably enjoy living in Spain claiming their british pensions.

Does it need an EU for that to happen?

[pricemazda]

Yes to set up the rules on how the system operates and to police it, to make sure each country is operating it fairly.

It's the same with common standards on buying property, rights for airline passengers, european roaming charges, rules on accessing medical treatment free of charge, the ability to study in other member states, the ability for police to track down drivers who break the law from other member states, regulate rules on road haulage to create a level playing field and increase road safety, access for british firms to the Spanish market, EU rules on mergers and acquisitions (like BA/Iberia)...

The belief this can be done in through bilateral agreements across 27 countries on such technical issues is naive. Even Thatcher accepted this point, if you want the single market you have to have a structure to ensure regulatory measures aren't used to block competition and to police the single market. This just shows how warped the EU debate in this country has become when even things people claim they like about the EU (the single market) is now believed can be achieved in some other magical way.

[Isaac Newell]

So UK citizens can only get their pension inside the EU?

[pricemazda]

You can only get your pension transferred on the same terms as at home inside the EU.

The most recent update is called the Pensions Portability Directive.