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Old November 4th, 2010, 02:53 AM   #1
slipperydog
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Politics and Transit Talk

Just so everyone knows, 30/10 could take a hit with the GOP takeover of the legislature. It was based on loans, but if those loans haven't already been granted, they could be taken away.
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Old November 4th, 2010, 03:53 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Los Angeles Times
Villaraigosa says GOP control of House could cost L.A.
November 3, 2010 | 4:21 pm

Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa lamented the loss of a Democratic-controlled House of Representatives and said it may have negative consequences for the city.

He laid part of the blame for the huge GOP gains in other states at the feet of Democrats who regularly assail President Obama for not pushing aggressively enough on behalf of the progressive agenda, be it a single-payer healthcare plan or deeper tax cuts for the middle class.

"One of the lessons for Democrats is we helped to fuel the Republican wildfire because we didn't get behind, we didn't defend the course we'd taken," the mayor said. "You have too many Democrats criticizing President Obama for not going far enough.... They don't understand. The country's evenly divided."

In recent weeks, Villaraigosa has extolled the White House and the Democratic-controlled Congress for its largesse with funding for L.A. mass transit projects. But Tuesday's results prompted a recollection of the days of the George W. Bush administration and a GOP-controlled Congress.

"When Republicans won the majority, we had Bush in the White House, and I knocked on their doors, I sometimes got an answer from them," Villaraigosa recalled. "I might get an extended hand. But I always walked away with my hand empty.... There was never anything that the Republican majority or the Bush White House helped us with. I tell you, what a difference a majority makes."

-- Patrick J. McDonnell
Read More: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/cali...d-cost-la.html
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Old November 4th, 2010, 06:43 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by slipperydog View Post
Just so everyone knows, 30/10 could take a hit with the GOP takeover of the legislature. It was based on loans, but if those loans haven't already been granted, they could be taken away.
That would be unforgiveable. Becuase we have been the only ones that have voted to tax ourselves over and over for these projects, all it is is borrowing while we get the revenue from the measures.

New England all they do is hand their hand out.
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Old November 4th, 2010, 06:48 PM   #4
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I was hoping that the populist politics were over, or at least would reduce for a while, but no such luck.

Leaving aside Mayor V's dubious analysis of the election rsults, it is hardly surprising that the party promising "pork" in every part of the country in a desperate bid to attract votes would then blame the other side for the failure of the pork to actually appear.

One should at least consider the possibility that there never was any real commitment to this project (or the hundreds of others announced across the country in the three weeks before the election) and that it was intended solely to get votes. I know this will shock some of you.

But what really worries me is that a serious review will find the Crenshaw and Foothill lines to be of questionable value and the whole 30/10 project will be killed, including the truly valuable stuff. When Mayor V goes back looking for someone to slip a few billion in his hand, maybe he should have something leaner and meaner to sell.
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Old November 4th, 2010, 08:18 PM   #5
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I was hoping that the populist politics were over, or at least would reduce for a while, but no such luck.

Leaving aside Mayor V's dubious analysis of the election rsults, it is hardly surprising that the party promising "pork" in every part of the country in a desperate bid to attract votes would then blame the other side for the failure of the pork to actually appear.

One should at least consider the possibility that there never was any real commitment to this project (or the hundreds of others announced across the country in the three weeks before the election) and that it was intended solely to get votes. I know this will shock some of you.

But what really worries me is that a serious review will find the Crenshaw and Foothill lines to be of questionable value and the whole 30/10 project will be killed, including the truly valuable stuff. When Mayor V goes back looking for someone to slip a few billion in his hand, maybe he should have something leaner and meaner to sell.
jesus christ.

the tiger 2 funds are already approved. they are already being spent in some cases and the rest will be by next october.

however, now that we have a bunch of far far right wing lunatics in office who do not wnat to compromise at all, any future funding is in serious doubt.
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Old November 4th, 2010, 10:43 PM   #6
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jesus christ.

the tiger 2 funds are already approved. they are already being spent in some cases and the rest will be by next october.

however, now that we have a bunch of far far right wing lunatics in office who do not wnat to compromise at all, any future funding is in serious doubt.
Come off this right wing nonsense. What you call lunacy, others may call fiscal responsibility. If certain projects are indeed found not to bring long-term value, I think it would be wise to reevaluate some of them, given the enormous debt load the city would be adding. For me, for example, 405 and Wilshire transit yes, Crenshaw transit no, mostly because the basin already has the blue line. If the GOP temporarily cuts all extraneous spending to get the out-of-control federal deficit down, I wouldn't have a problem with this. The suspending of the 30/10 initiative wouldn't kill the projects, they would just be moved back to their original timeline.

If you've followed the proposed ARC tunnel under the Hudson, Christie just killed the project because he promised to balance the budget, and the high % chances of billions in cost overruns was just something that New Jersey could not afford. For far too long in that state, they have had a culture of ordering stuff they can't pay for. LA and California would do well to take a lesson from that. We are in a much worse situation, and I wouldn't mind reigning in the spending for a bit if it means taking a serious look at the utility and value of each individual project. 30/10 wraps up all the projects in a neat, little bow, but each should really be evaluated on its own merit.

Politicians may get elected by supporting these types of earmarks, but it's still the leftist culture of spending, spending, spending. Even though LA voters passed Measure R, I think we should still be wise with those tax revenues, so I don't think it would be too harmful to conduct a serious review and suspend or cut the questionable stuff if need be. It all boils down to two different philosophies. Local transit (a few thousand temporary jobs), or tax cuts (millions of permanent jobs)? Does a federal loan for a rail line in LA help small business owners in Iowa trying to keep their businesses afloat? No, but if we cut stuff like high speed rail, the federal government can better afford to cut taxes for those 'wealthy' business owners NATIONWIDE without running up the deficit, and who by the way are already having a hard time creating jobs because they can't afford to pay for their healthcare.

PS. The priority is to get people back working, not to cling to some fantastical ideology that everyone has to have healthcare, and small businesses should foot the bill. Millions of young people don't even want to pay for healthcare, and now they are mandated to just to avoid a fine.

Last edited by slipperydog; November 5th, 2010 at 02:00 AM.
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Old November 4th, 2010, 11:05 PM   #7
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Come off this right wing nonsense. What you call lunacy, others may call fiscal responsibility. If certain projects are indeed found not to bring long-term value, I think it would be wise to reevaluate some of them, given the enormous debt load the city would be adding. For me, for example, 405 transit yes, Crenshaw transit no, mostly because the basin already has the blue line. If the GOP temporarily cuts all extraneous spending to get the out-of-control federal deficit down, I wouldn't have a problem with this. The suspending of the 30/10 initiative wouldn't kill the projects, they would just be moved back to their original timeline.

If you've followed the proposed ARC tunnel under the Hudson, Christie just killed the project because he promised to balance the budget, and the high % chances of billions in cost overruns was just something that New Jersey could not afford. For far too long in that state, they have had a culture of ordering stuff they can't pay for. LA and California would do well to take a lesson from that. We are in a much worse situation, and I wouldn't mind reigning in the spending for a bit if it means taking a serious look at the utility and value of each individual project. 30/10 wraps up all the projects in a neat, little bow, but each should really be evaluated on its own merit. Even though LA voters passed Measure R, I think we should still be wise with those tax revenues, so I don't think it would be too harmful to conduct a serious review and cut the questionable stuff if need be.
First of all, the far far right wingers would for the most part be the tea baggers, and anyone that doesnt think they are bat shit is in for a surprise. When people deny evolution and think god will lead the way, they are in need of some serious help.

Now, im socially a democrat, but fiscally, im more of a moderate. These rail lines all have merit, if only for the job creation and the improved infrastructure. Sure, everything should be reviewed, but these people are coming in to cut all govt spending except for defense and to reduce taxes. We need politicians that are willing to work together, not people that do things in spite. There is no good reason not to establish an infrastructure bank in America, considering we are way way way behind the asian and eurpoean cities and our streets are literally crumbling.
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Old November 4th, 2010, 11:58 PM   #8
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First of all, the far far right wingers would for the most part be the tea baggers, and anyone that doesnt think they are bat shit is in for a surprise. When people deny evolution and think god will lead the way, they are in need of some serious help.

Now, im socially a democrat, but fiscally, im more of a moderate. These rail lines all have merit, if only for the job creation and the improved infrastructure. Sure, everything should be reviewed, but these people are coming in to cut all govt spending except for defense and to reduce taxes. We need politicians that are willing to work together, not people that do things in spite. There is no good reason not to establish an infrastructure bank in America, considering we are way way way behind the asian and eurpoean cities and our streets are literally crumbling.
Chill out. Hateful speech and intolerance on BOTH sides gets us nowhere. Religion has nothing to do with someone's economic ideology. I personally think the Mormon doctrine is pretty loony, but I don't argue that they shouldn't serve in Congress. From what I can see, the 'tea baggers' and conservatives as a whole, are putting a forth a straightforward, sensible plan for economic recovery. Given that a) the deficit is out of control and b) the economy is in the tank, an a) temporary moratorium on government spending and b) extension of tax cuts for everyone make sense.

PS You have been brainwashed about the far right. No most Christians don't believe the world was created 6000 years ago, and no most do not deny that evolution is the primary driver of biological diversity, and no they're not obsessed with burning Qurans
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Old November 5th, 2010, 04:37 AM   #9
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Chill out. Hateful speech and intolerance on BOTH sides gets us nowhere. Religion has nothing to do with someone's economic ideology. I personally think the Mormon doctrine is pretty loony, but I don't argue that they shouldn't serve in Congress. From what I can see, the 'tea baggers' and conservatives as a whole, are putting a forth a straightforward, sensible plan for economic recovery. Given that a) the deficit is out of control and b) the economy is in the tank, an a) temporary moratorium on government spending and b) extension of tax cuts for everyone make sense.

PS You have been brainwashed about the far right. No most Christians don't believe the world was created 6000 years ago, and no most do not deny that evolution is the primary driver of biological diversity, and no they're not obsessed with burning Qurans


Most arent, but a lot of their leaders are. thats whats scary. And most certainly, religion can influence how someone views everything, and that includes economics. Anywho, i definitely agree that there are crazies on both sides and we should just leave it at that and get back to the topic.
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Old November 5th, 2010, 07:56 PM   #10
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No we shouldn't leave it at that. Discussing the new GOP majority in the House is on topic because it affects this thread directly.
Measure R unlike other transit packages we'll be paid for through us taxing ourselves, we're just asking for an upfront loan to be able to get these projects done in a timely manner.


How anyone who is interested in transit or urbanity or cities could support Republicans or an extremist group like the Tea Party continues to dumbfound me.
BTW the Crenshaw Line is not pork in a region like LA. Crenshaw will eventually connect to Wilshire and on to H&H.
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Old November 5th, 2010, 08:20 PM   #11
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agree with slipdog on most of this. A couple of more comments.

We should ease up on narrowness of view. If the entire Senate had been up for election, they would have gone Republican, so the "far right" seems to be the majority by your terminology. Maybe right or moderate right is better for people who win majorities.

Another example: the libertarians in my classes (who around here are largely agnostics) are pro-legalization of marijuana (and even heroin in some cases), prostitution, gay marriage and such, as are the left. The moderate left and right (who give more weight to families and less to indvidual freedom) are the opposition. Political parties don't like you to understand this, but this is not a fight between good and evil, but between practical approaches to maximizing overall welfare for the long-term.

But the main point here is case by case review, the way that all businesses are run and all families and personal decisions properly made. You don't start with what do I want (because that's "everything"). You start with what do I need most and can afford and focus on that.
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Old November 5th, 2010, 10:03 PM   #12
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Don't want to get into politics, but this is on-point to Mayor V's comments. Starting about 3 weeks ago when it became obvious that the GOP would take over the House, the issue on the talk shows and at political colloquiums and lectures became "Is this a good or bad thing for Obama?" The consensus was it was a good thing because if he retained control of congress, then he would not be able to blame anyone else for the failure to lower unemployment, increase business investment, balance the budget, etc. (none of which are likely if current policies continue).

However, if the GOP wins the House, he can blame everything on their obstruction of his plans that were just about to pay-off with huge growth, new jobs, big pay raises and increased govt. services with a balanced budget.

But no one I heard predicted the blaming would start this quickly.
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Old November 5th, 2010, 10:19 PM   #13
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ok guys. enough politics.

none of this political discussion relates to 30/10, or anything else los angeles. let's stop it please.

when there's news that the republicans blocked this (fill in the blank) LA transportation project, or the democrats did (blank) to hinder transportation, then you guys can argue all you want. everything at this point is pure speculation.
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Old November 5th, 2010, 10:22 PM   #14
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"Is this good for Obama"? Losing control of the House and being able to blame Repugs is purely political and reminds me of how they obstruct everything (even the good stuff) only for purely political purposes. But I think if anyone would ask "does this further Obama's political package that he would like to see realized"? Hell no. And bottom line that's all that matters. It will become tougher for him to see his Infrastructure Plan move ahead and that's bad for all of us. We'd still have crumbling roads and rail all across the country but at least he'll be able to blame that on the Repugs and Tealiban.
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Old November 5th, 2010, 10:36 PM   #15
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agree with slipdog on most of this. A couple of more comments.

.
You've gotta be kidding "pest". You agree w/ "slipdog" on these issues? Like for instance that the deficit is out of control? Well the deficit has been out of control since Bush Jr. and where were the Tea Partiers then? We've been overspending on war since a few months after 9/11. Where were they then? Remember Shock & Awe? The truth is so obvious what these people are all about when the first thing our of their mouths is that the President is a Socialist and a secret Muslim. They don't care about the deficit and what better evidence of pushing to protect Americans civil liberties than the 1964 Civil Rights Act which forceably desegregated public places and put an end to housing discrimination? I would expect these nutjobs to be champions for that type of legislation. But no, Tealiban darling Rand Paul hiccuped on the Rachel Maddow show when he said that the historic legislation was overreaching. Overreaching for whom? Once again with all of that code speak we know exactly what he's saying eventhough he doesn't have the wherewithall within himself to just say it. A very dangerous turn for this country but no surprise it's in America's DNA. Now back to transit.
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Old November 5th, 2010, 10:41 PM   #16
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And bottom line that's all that matters. It will become tougher for him to see his Infrastructure Plan move ahead and that's bad for all of us. We'd still have crumbling roads and rail all across the country but at least he'll be able to blame that on the Repugs and Tealiban.
I am for upgrading our infrastructure as much as the next guy, but you clearly don't understand economics if you think that roads and rail is the key to economic recovery in a major recession. And since most of the trillion dollar stimulus has gone towards stuff like roads and bridges, it was essentially a complete waste because infrastructure has nothing to do with encouraging businesses to start hiring. And enough with the name-calling, are you four years old?
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Old November 5th, 2010, 10:41 PM   #17
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GOP Leaders Ignore Tea Party's Calls For Earmark Ban
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/1..._n_779480.html
The Nazis will eventually pull the party apart.
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Old November 5th, 2010, 11:04 PM   #18
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I am for upgrading our infrastructure as much as the next guy, but you clearly don't understand economics if you think that roads and rail is the key to economic recovery in a major recession. And since most of the trillion dollar stimulus has gone towards stuff like roads and bridges, it was essentially a complete waste because infrastructure has nothing to do with encouraging businesses to start hiring. And enough with the name-calling, are you four years old?
Interesting. Actually there are a variety of things that are key to an economic recovery one of them being time. Of course I never said that Infrastructure was key to our economic recovery I only said that it is bad for all of us if we don't see these needed projects through. Putting words in my mouth to try to prove a point, very immature. How old are you? Three?
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Old November 5th, 2010, 11:14 PM   #19
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Interesting. Actually there are a variety of things that are key to an economic recovery one of them being time.
That sounds nice, but when you promise that your spending on bridges will bring unemployment down to 8%, and then you don't deliver, that means that your crap didn't work. And the voters reaffirmed that this time around.

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Of course I never said that Infrastructure was key to our economic recovery I only said that it is bad for all of us if we don't see these needed projects through. Putting words in my mouth to try to prove a point, very immature.
Good, then let's worry about it later. Like I said, I am all for improved infrastructure. Forgive me, but my interpretation was that you were implying that we need these projects DURING a recession. I don't get why you're throwing a hissy fit over the de-acceleration of 30/10, as if it's some vicious attack on the American people. These projects just go back to their normal timeline under Measure R. If you actually thought that through, you wouldn't resort to attacking the GOP just to make the point that you're a left-wing ideologue who thinks the Tea Party is racist.

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Like for instance that the deficit is out of control? Well the deficit has been out of control since Bush Jr. and where were the Tea Partiers then? We've been overspending on war since a few months after 9/11.
Tax cuts for the first time in our history during a war by Bush were ill-advised in my opinion. That's what really accelerated the deficit. I think most people understand that they have to make sacrifices during wartime, and a suspension of the tax cuts, prior to the economy going in the tank, would have been certainly okay with me.

But since Obama got into office, he has quadraupled Bush's deficit by trying to spend his way out of a recession. That's basically fighting fire with fire, instead of water. The problem is that Obama's rampant spending and threat to raise taxes is actually making things worse.
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Old November 6th, 2010, 04:04 AM   #20
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Wasn't Hoover Dam built during the Depression? I'm not an economist but I'm under the impression that building public infrastructur is a win-win for the economy. Much needed overdue projects are being built and folks who would be otherwise out of work are working. It's really hard for me to believe that Obama attempting to stimulate the economy in an FDR type of manner is completely and all wrong. Does that mean that FDR was wrong?
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