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Old December 3rd, 2007, 03:14 AM   #281
Jaeger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33Hz View Post
I know about the Nightstar service being scrapped. However I was asking about the service in the article you requoted. AFAIK that is the only such article and was published in 2003. When you say "there is a real possibility", do you have any other sources, because that article could just be pure fantasy?

I think plans will become more apparent when London and Continental is sold and High Speed 1 is opened up, with rail companies across Europe operating services and not just
Eurostar.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7104538.stm





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Old December 6th, 2007, 05:24 PM   #282
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Ditch the plane, take the train Heathrow to Paris plan

4 December 2007


Heathrow: London's next international rail hub?

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle2982649.ece

http://www.wimbledonguardian.co.uk/n...paris_plan.php

Channel Tunnel planners have drawn up a blueprint for a fast rail line connecting Heathrow and Paris.

Arup, the engineering firm responsible for planning the Channel Tunnel link to Stratford, is expected to release the Heathrow-Paris proposal at the launch of a history of the existing rail link.

The Right Line, a history of the high-speed rail link is being launched tonight at a parliamentary reception.

According to media reports, the Arup plan would see the Eurostar line, which terminates at St Pancras, extended to a new Heathrow station via Paddington.

From the airport, it would head back towards Marylebone then on to Birmingham and Scotland.

Travel time from Heathrow to Paris would be under two-and-a-half hours, reducing the need for a controversial third runway at the airport.

Last edited by Jaeger; December 6th, 2007 at 05:30 PM.
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Old December 7th, 2007, 08:52 AM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaeger View Post
Ditch the plane, take the train Heathrow to Paris plan

4 December 2007


Heathrow: London's next international rail hub?

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle2982649.ece

http://www.wimbledonguardian.co.uk/n...paris_plan.php

Channel Tunnel planners have drawn up a blueprint for a fast rail line connecting Heathrow and Paris.

Arup, the engineering firm responsible for planning the Channel Tunnel link to Stratford, is expected to release the Heathrow-Paris proposal at the launch of a history of the existing rail link.

The Right Line, a history of the high-speed rail link is being launched tonight at a parliamentary reception.

According to media reports, the Arup plan would see the Eurostar line, which terminates at St Pancras, extended to a new Heathrow station via Paddington.

From the airport, it would head back towards Marylebone then on to Birmingham and Scotland.

Travel time from Heathrow to Paris would be under two-and-a-half hours, reducing the need for a controversial third runway at the airport.
How on earth would this reduce the need for a third runway? Are they suggesting that people may land in a Paris airport and then travel to London?

Sure, right, I can really see that.

Frankfurt to London: €110 return average (with a main airline like BA, not budget), flying time 1hr 15min. Overall time 4hours max.

Frankfurt to London via Paris: €97 return + Eurostar fare €250 =€347. Total time, 7hours

Why would anyone do this?
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Old December 7th, 2007, 04:14 PM   #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme View Post
Frankfurt to London via Paris: €97 return + Eurostar fare €250 =€347. Total time, 7hours

Why would anyone do this?

Its still 7 hours with the new ICE conection between Frankfurt and Paris?
The travel time between Strasburg and Paris has been cut in half by the new TGV line btw, so basically youd be faster in London when you travel from there I guess.
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Old December 7th, 2007, 06:25 PM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme View Post
How on earth would this reduce the need for a third runway? Are they suggesting that people may land in a Paris airport and then travel to London?

Sure, right, I can really see that.

Frankfurt to London: €110 return average (with a main airline like BA, not budget), flying time 1hr 15min. Overall time 4hours max.

Frankfurt to London via Paris: €97 return + Eurostar fare €250 =€347. Total time, 7hours

Why would anyone do this?
There are still plenty of flights between Heathrow and Paris or Brussels. I guess most of those passengers connect with another flight at Heathrow, so for them the current Eurostar services from St. Pancras are not really an alternative. That would change if Eurostar actually reached Heathrow and if airlines agreed to codeshare with them in replacement of their own flights. The same could happen with flights to Manchester if there were direct trains from Heathrow to that city. In the end the airliners would free up lots of slots that could be used for bigger planes and routes where they are still more efficient than other means of transport.

Last edited by AR1182; December 7th, 2007 at 06:34 PM.
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Old December 7th, 2007, 06:33 PM   #286
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Its still 7 hours with the new ICE conection between Frankfurt and Paris?
The travel time between Strasburg and Paris has been cut in half by the new TGV line btw, so basically youd be faster in London when you travel from there I guess.
If you travelled by train from London to Frankfurt it would rather be via Brussels. The best connection there cuts the London-Frankfurt travel time to just under six hours.
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Old December 7th, 2007, 07:56 PM   #287
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I think the idea is that the Heathrow-Paris link would arise as part of a high-speed line to the North, with a branch to Heathrow allowing services in all directions. This could effectively remove the need for flights to most northern cities in Britain, as well as to Paris and Brussels.
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Old December 8th, 2007, 01:45 AM   #288
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If you travelled by train from London to Frankfurt it would rather be via Brussels. The best connection there cuts the London-Frankfurt travel time to just under six hours.
If a direct service started tomorrow, it could be done in 5 hours. If you look at the actual distance involved - and the line between Brussels and Cologne was upgraded to 300+km/h throughout - then it should actually be more like 4 hours.

At that point things get interesting. However, there is no national strategic reason why the Belgians need to upgrade that whole line to 300km/h (they are only doing some of it), as it only really usefully speeds up journeys that pass through Belgium.
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Old December 8th, 2007, 01:47 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by chrishillcoat View Post
I think the idea is that the Heathrow-Paris link would arise as part of a high-speed line to the North, with a branch to Heathrow allowing services in all directions. This could effectively remove the need for flights to most northern cities in Britain, as well as to Paris and Brussels.
Not necessarily a branch - the proposal this week from Arup says the line should be routed through Heathrow, so potentially all trains could stop there.
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Old December 8th, 2007, 07:49 PM   #290
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How on earth would this reduce the need for a third runway? Are they suggesting that people may land in a Paris airport and then travel to London?
It does seem like rather wishful thinking, not to mention unlikely. If anything it would encourage more travellers from the airport.
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Old December 8th, 2007, 08:53 PM   #291
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Not necessarily a branch - the proposal this week from Arup says the line should be routed through Heathrow, so potentially all trains could stop there.
Yes, although direct service from continental Europe to Manchester and Birmingham via Heathrow wouldn't make too much sense if you keep in mind that these international trains wouldn't be allowed to carry domestic passengers, for example between Heathrow and Manchester or Birmingham, just as you can't take Eurostar from London to Ashford or Ebbsfleet.
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Old December 8th, 2007, 08:59 PM   #292
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It does seem like rather wishful thinking, not to mention unlikely. If anything it would encourage more travellers from the airport.
It could replace many plane-to-plane connections at Heathrow with train-to-plane connections. Although I doubt this would be enough to make the third runway unnecessary, it would still free up many slots at Heathrow.
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Old December 9th, 2007, 12:32 AM   #293
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Not necessarily a branch - the proposal this week from Arup says the line should be routed through Heathrow, so potentially all trains could stop there.
Seems a silly idea, the HS2 route option is to shadow the Chiltern line. Going to Heathrow would be a massive diversion, and it would require even more tunnelling.

A triangular junction at where the Heathrow branch is intended to diverge (somewhere around Northolt I believe) would be a better idea IMO.
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Old December 10th, 2007, 02:31 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Seems a silly idea, the HS2 route option is to shadow the Chiltern line. Going to Heathrow would be a massive diversion, and it would require even more tunnelling.

A triangular junction at where the Heathrow branch is intended to diverge (somewhere around Northolt I believe) would be a better idea IMO.
Get your map out and have a look at the route. Even better use Google Earth or similar.

A realistic route off the Chiltern line and back again via Heathrow adds 4 miles. At HSR speeds, for a non-stop train that is 90 seconds.
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Old December 10th, 2007, 02:42 AM   #295
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Get your map out and have a look at the route. Even better use Google Earth or similar.

A realistic route off the Chiltern line and back again via Heathrow adds 4 miles. At HSR speeds, for a non-stop train that is 90 seconds.
Would it require more tunnelling? Is the curve fast enough for HSR speeds? Is 4 miles measured as a straight line or as a curve? Which route would it take? The existing GWML route or a new one?
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Old December 10th, 2007, 03:30 AM   #296
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Would it require more tunnelling? Is the curve fast enough for HSR speeds? Is 4 miles measured as a straight line or as a curve? Which route would it take? The existing GWML route or a new one?
I haven't seen the Arup proposal, but the distance between the closest points on the WCML and GMWL is about half a mile. It could parallel the latter for a few miles. You would require some tunneling under Heathrow, then swing north of Slough to rejoin the other line at High Wycombe. I'd expect about 4 miles of extra tunneling at most, and yes it could be as fast as the HS1 tunnel.
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Old December 10th, 2007, 11:05 AM   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AR1182 View Post
If you travelled by train from London to Frankfurt it would rather be via Brussels.
It was Justme who picked that route out.
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Old December 10th, 2007, 05:57 PM   #298
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It was Justme who picked that route out.
I know, but I'm still wondering why he picked that one as an example, being less direct and probably more expensive.
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Old December 10th, 2007, 06:42 PM   #299
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Are there any pics of the Thameslink station that has opened today?
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Old December 11th, 2007, 05:42 AM   #300
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this is what i found on the wikipedia page on the St Pancras International Station and well i don't know if there are more to be found but if anybody would like to show it here then anybody can

this is the St Pancras new Thameslink Station opening for the FCC (First Capital Connect) pretty cool and modern like the Jubilee line Extension stations
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