daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old September 24th, 2008, 12:17 AM   #341
flierfy
Registered User
 
flierfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,886
Likes (Received): 296

Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
And Birmingham New Street is arguably the single most important station on the entire railway network in the UK. Nothing in London is as strategically important due to the way there are many entirely separate lines and stations into London.
Maybe not in London but stations like Rugby, Crewe or Preston are strategically more important than Birmingham New Street.
__________________
Rippachtal.de
flierfy no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old September 24th, 2008, 01:11 AM   #342
sotonsi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,563

Flierfy - if so, why doesn't network rail own them?

BNS is the hub of the Cross Country network, on the WCML (OK, on a branch) and the hub of the West Midlands more local rail network. Crewe, Rugby and Preston are important stations, but nowhere near as busy or as vital - OK, the junctions there are important (for Crewe and Rugby anyway), but the stations aren't really.
sotonsi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2008, 01:21 AM   #343
rossie1977
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 220
Likes (Received): 7

new street is a strange station built under a shopping centre
rossie1977 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2008, 10:35 PM   #344
elfabyanos
Dracuna Macoides
 
elfabyanos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,814
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
Maybe not in London but stations like Rugby, Crewe or Preston are strategically more important than Birmingham New Street.
Yeah and to add to what Sotonsi has pointed out BNS handles as many trains as Preston, Rugby and Crewe put together. The second most important station strategically would be Reading. Preston would be at best behind Doncaster, Reading, Manchester Piccadilly, yes Crewe and Rugby would be high up there too, but there's no doubting BNS's number one spot.
elfabyanos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2008, 10:47 PM   #345
elfabyanos
Dracuna Macoides
 
elfabyanos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,814
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by brisbanite View Post
How many platforms will the new station have?
see post 10 in the uk forum for a pic. Not much change in the track layout I think, http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=711704

Last edited by elfabyanos; September 25th, 2008 at 10:10 AM. Reason: didn't put the link in Doh!
elfabyanos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2008, 07:33 AM   #346
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,074
Likes (Received): 8823

I'm eternally thankful that New Street Station will be rebuilt. It was my least favourite station to pass through in Britain.
Svartmetall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2008, 10:20 AM   #347
SO Far aways
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bangkok/Hamburg/Beijing and Singapore
Posts: 170
Likes (Received): 0

Very nice station I never seen!

Uk Architect are the Best in The World!

Someday, I must do my country like you.
SO Far aways no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2008, 11:17 AM   #348
city_thing
Put it in your mouth
 
city_thing's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Melbourne.
Posts: 7,128
Likes (Received): 883

It's a pretty ******* awesome design I have to admit

It's good to see Brum stepping up in the world.
__________________
Calling occupants of interplanetary craft...
city_thing no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2008, 06:21 PM   #349
flierfy
Registered User
 
flierfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,886
Likes (Received): 296

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
Flierfy - if so, why doesn't network rail own them?
No, network rail owns all of these stations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
BNS is the hub of the Cross Country network, on the WCML (OK, on a branch) and the hub of the West Midlands more local rail network. Crewe, Rugby and Preston are important stations, but nowhere near as busy or as vital - OK, the junctions there are important (for Crewe and Rugby anyway), but the stations aren't really.
Birmingham New Street is of great importance for Birmingham and probably the whole West Midland conurbation. Strategically it is, however, not so important as the key station on the WCML I mentioned.

And Cross Country is a rather insignificant franchise. The rail lines to and from London are the ones of the highest importance for the whole UK. That's why they are prioritised.
__________________
Rippachtal.de
flierfy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2008, 06:42 PM   #350
sotonsi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,563

Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
No, network rail owns all of these stations.
I meant managed - Network Rail can't be bothered to run Crewe, Preston or Rugby but let the TOCs do it.
Quote:
And Cross Country is a rather insignificant franchise. The rail lines to and from London are the ones of the highest importance for the whole UK. That's why they are prioritised.
Yes, however that doesn't stop BNS being the most important interchange station on the network. It doesn't stop it being the centre of the UK's railway network, it doesn't stop it being the most important single station outside of London, if not the whole country.

Other contenders for the crown we're giving to BNS are Leeds and Reading - Crewe, Rugby and Preston aren't important enough stations, though I'm happy to admit that the junctions near them are major junctions (though would delays there cause delays all over the NR network, as delays at the junctions either side of BNS would?) and also to admit that in network terms the stations are quite important. Preston is the only one of the three you mention that all the trains passing through stop at - Crewe and Rugby are unimportant enough that only some of the trains going through them stop there. Stafford's also between important junctions on the WCML (more important than Preston for certain) - why is that not on your list. Doncaster is the Crewe on the other side of the country - again, why not on the list.
sotonsi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2008, 07:07 PM   #351
Brummyboy92
Birmingham = #1
 
Brummyboy92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 5,945
Likes (Received): 1322

You go sotonsi
__________________
Sometime I wish I could be you, so I could be friends with me.
-Angelica Pickles
Brummyboy92 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2008, 08:18 PM   #352
Kuvvaci
Strange User
 
Kuvvaci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 19,708
Likes (Received): 64

it is very nice...
Kuvvaci no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2008, 09:45 PM   #353
flierfy
Registered User
 
flierfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,886
Likes (Received): 296

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
I meant managed - Network Rail can't be bothered to run Crewe, Preston or Rugby but let the TOCs do it.
Which station is managed by Network Rail and which not says very little about its importance. I couldn't explain why Gatwick Airport station is managed by NR while Clapham Jct isn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
Yes, however that doesn't stop BNS being the most important interchange station on the network. It doesn't stop it being the centre of the UK's railway network, it doesn't stop it being the most important single station outside of London, if not the whole country.
There are reliable source that disagree with you. Several London station count more interchanges than Birmingham New Street. Most notable a station called Clapham Junction.

And it is neither the heart of the whole network. Birmingham New Street is off any high speed main line. There are even rail lines through central Birmingham that are by-passing this station. I fail to name a part of Britain's rail network that could be described as its heart. Maybe London Underground as it links all London Termini.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
Other contenders for the crown we're giving to BNS are Leeds and Reading - Crewe, Rugby and Preston aren't important enough stations, though I'm happy to admit that the junctions near them are major junctions (though would delays there cause delays all over the NR network, as delays at the junctions either side of BNS would?)
These delays would be recognised from Glasgow to London whereas any failure of the infrastructure in and around Birmingham would cause hardly more than local problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
and also to admit that in network terms the stations are quite important. Preston is the only one of the three you mention that all the trains passing through stop at - Crewe and Rugby are unimportant enough that only some of the trains going through them stop there. Stafford's also between important junctions on the WCML (more important than Preston for certain) - why is that not on your list. Doncaster is the Crewe on the other side of the country - again, why not on the list.
I gave you the examples that first sprang to my mind. Doncaster, Peterborough, York and some others are certainly as strategically important as those on the WCML.
__________________
Rippachtal.de
flierfy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 27th, 2008, 03:31 AM   #354
sotonsi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,563

Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
There are reliable source that disagree with you. Several London station count more interchanges than Birmingham New Street. Most notable a station called Clapham Junction.
however number isn't always a sign of importance - Clapham Junction is for interchanges between different parts of SW/S London, and things like Eastbourne-Basingstoke: basically within the SE area. BNS connects trains from most parts of the country with each other - OK, you won't use it for London changes from many places, due to the more direct routes, but it's the focal point for long distance services that don't serve London. If you removed Clapham Junction station, then the interchanges could happen elsewhere easier than if you removed BNS.
Quote:
And it is neither the heart of the whole network. Birmingham New Street is off any high speed main line.
but the network isn't just high speed main lines (that 3 different major intercity routes pass through it, plus more regional routes (West Wales, Leicester/Stansted) as well as more local routes in the West Midlands). It's the lead contender for the single rail station that could be considered the heart, the centre of the UK rail network.
Quote:
There are even rail lines through central Birmingham that are by-passing this station. I fail to name a part of Britain's rail network that could be described as its heart. Maybe London Underground as it links all London Termini.
I'd agree that there's a multi-hubbed network, but BNS, if you had to name one station as a hub, would be it, though that doesn't work. However I stand by my suggestion that, among some stiff competition (mostly from stations I've mentioned, more than ones you have), BNS is the most important.
Quote:
These delays would be recognised from Glasgow to London whereas any failure of the infrastructure in and around Birmingham would cause hardly more than local problems.
wrong - I've been delayed at Southampton many times due to problems further up the Cross Country route - the Cross Country trains, if delayed muck about with the lines they use - SWT get delayed if there's some problem with signals at Reading, or Oxford, or even Edinburgh (that was a major problem there once and my SWT slow-train got delayed by a small amount as it had to let the really late running XC train go first) - as BNS is on all the XC lines, then delays there will pass on to almost every mainline in the country - problems at Crewe, etc, would impact the rail network, and the WCML in particular, but a major problem at BNS would affect the much more of the country's rail network, as it's a focus for services that use lots of different lines, as well as just a few.
Quote:
I gave you the examples that first sprang to my mind. Doncaster, Peterborough, York and some others are certainly as strategically important as those on the WCML.
but none of those are as important as BNS strategically. Not forgetting that, as a station, rather than just a junction is what matters when talking about strategically important. Crewe, Preston and Rugby were absurd "these are better than BNS strategically", Doncaster, Peterborough and York are about the same calibre as their WCML counterparts. Clapham Junction: finally a worthy adversary, however isn't quite as good - it just doesn't have the same amount of national significance on top of it's regional and local significance (and also, trains do skip it - they don't skip BNS under normal service).
sotonsi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 27th, 2008, 04:53 PM   #355
elfabyanos
Dracuna Macoides
 
elfabyanos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,814
Likes (Received): 5

Fierfly, BNS is the single most important train station in the country by any standards. Just because Preston and Rugby are on busy routes doesnt make them as important, by that same reckoning a bridge accross a little stream half a mile from Preston station could have the same significance because as many trains pass over it. But if Preston station closed but the trains still ran through would there be chaos? Only for people who live in Preston. If the same things happened at BNS, the trains could get through but no passengers could get off or change there would chaos. Conversely if they trains couldn't pass Preston that would scupper the WCML. BLocking BNS would scupper the WCML ECML, midland mainline and the route to Bristol - AXC trains get in the way and cuase delays everywhere as it is but chaos at BNS breeds chaos everywhere else. And although there are many other important places, and BNS is not the centre of tehh universe, there a re just no other individual train stations that are as strategicall important. Clapham junction maybe, but that only affects the London - Eastbourne - Bournemouth triangle.
elfabyanos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 22nd, 2008, 02:07 PM   #356
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,944
Likes (Received): 18212

London's St. Pancras Station axes artwork depicting passenger falling to death under train
13 October 2008

LONDON (AP) - The sculpture shows a man about to fall under a subway car driven by a Grim Reaper figure.

Its creator says it was meant as a tribute to train drivers and the risks they face. But the work's planned home, a London railway station, said Monday it had canceled plans to put it on display after complaints by railway unions and the families of suicide victims.

Officials at St. Pancras Station, the hub for Eurostar high-speed shuttle services to France and Belgium, said the carving by sculptor Paul Day was inappropriate.

The image was intended as part of a bronze frieze encircling the base of Day's work "The Meeting Place," a 30-foot (9 meter) statue of an embracing couple that stands on the station concourse.

A clay model of part of the frieze went on display at the station last week. It shows a series of railway-related scenes, including soldiers heading off to war and emergency workers helping victims of the July 7, 2005 London transit bombings.

Day said the contentious image -- shown reflected in a pair of sunglasses -- was meant "as a view of the mind's eye of a train driver."

"Rather than depicting suicide, it is depicting the fears these drivers do face," Day told BBC radio. He said he hoped it would encourage people to "respect and admire that particular job."

A train drivers' union and families of people who have committed suicide on the railways criticized the image as insensitive.

Station owner London and Continental Railways said the frieze would go ahead without the disputed section.

Spokesman Ben Ruse said the company welcomed Day's "challenging" work. But he said CEO Rob Holden had decided that "the particular scene of a rail passenger in front of a Tube train will not form part of the final frieze."

The finished frieze is due to be in place by mid-2009.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2009, 08:28 PM   #357
narflc
┐Dificil? Decime Leo
 
narflc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fisherton, Provincia de Rosario
Posts: 6,933
Likes (Received): 1997

This is the London Midland train station?
__________________
______________________________________________
Aguante Central Cˇrdoba
narflc no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 31st, 2009, 02:40 AM   #358
andysimo123
wind-up merchant
 
andysimo123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 15,960
Likes (Received): 82

Quote:
Originally Posted by narflc View Post
This is the London Midland train station?
London Midland is a train company. Network Rail own and run it.
andysimo123 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 31st, 2009, 03:59 PM   #359
narflc
┐Dificil? Decime Leo
 
narflc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fisherton, Provincia de Rosario
Posts: 6,933
Likes (Received): 1997

Ah... I was once to Cradley Heath from Birmingham using LM and then the small People movers. It was a nice experience...
__________________
______________________________________________
Aguante Central Cˇrdoba
narflc no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2009, 09:37 PM   #360
Herbicide
a tangy drink!
 
Herbicide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 4,213
Likes (Received): 264

Quote:
Originally Posted by UD2 View Post
This is the Shenzhou, and it does look like the sketch for the Grand Central proposal

This is an outsize double decker and would never fit the UKs inferior guage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UD2 View Post
If the Grand central train is going to be diesel, then it could present a problem. Mostly because China have never seen a real high speed DMU.
Neither has anywhere but the UK. Its high time we started investing properly in electrification and finished with these stupid botched compromises. Diesel should be left to remote, rural and underused lines like it is in almost any other developed country.
Herbicide no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
high speed rail, hs2, railways, scotland, trains

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium