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Old August 28th, 2009, 10:40 PM   #401
Mateusz
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Myabe second line would go East Coast from London to Leeds
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Old August 29th, 2009, 08:12 AM   #402
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Great selection of pics there poshbakerloo.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 03:52 PM   #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thun View Post
Why should there be a problem regarding the city centres. You can link the new line to the existing network and use the existing tracks and stations in the cities. Costs a few minutes but is much cheaper. The TGV doesn't run with 300km/h within Paris either.
The idea is to build new platforms with existing stations or new stations near existing terminals inside city centres. The problem of using existing platforms and tracks arises from capacity. The other reasons are linking them to the existing system for easy connections. That keeps travel times as fast as possible, opens up capacity and gets people to where they want to be. Its all in the report.
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Old August 30th, 2009, 03:10 AM   #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andysimo123 View Post
The idea is to build new platforms with existing stations or new stations near existing terminals inside city centres. The problem of using existing platforms and tracks arises from capacity. The other reasons are linking them to the existing system for easy connections. That keeps travel times as fast as possible, opens up capacity and gets people to where they want to be. Its all in the report.
I read the full report from Network Rail and am very happy with the recommendations.

Basically they propose a new line all the way to Scotland with branches to B'ham, Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow and Edinburgh. The runtimes to Scotland with around 2:15 are incredible and will give rail a real boost.

In regards to the city center stations they want to built the line to the full European loading gauge, e.g. 400m long double stagged TGV's. That makes the classic stations unsuitable as their platforms are too short and also too close to the track.

My only slight criticism arises from that point. I don't think that they need to run 4 trains per hour to each B'ham and Manchester. They say that this trains will be only 10 coaches long. But by running 400m long double stagged trains they could run 20-minutes intervals as currently and would still offer enough capacity. Maybe even a 30-minutes interval would be sufficient. For an Intercity route like these I think every 30 minutes is more than ebough and would not drive too many passengers to other modes of transportation as long as I can ofer enough capacity. The current 20 minutes intervals offered by Virgin Trains is from my point more derived by the lack of other options to extend capacity than by the necessity to run such a frequency.

By gaining four pathes from B'ham and Manchester additional trains could run to Chester-Holyhead, Leicester-Nottingham or other provincial towns.
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Old August 30th, 2009, 05:34 PM   #405
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An interesting old train to mention:

these trains were used on the london underground, then some were moved to the isle of wight in the south of england and are still in service today, running the short island line running from north to the south of the island.

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr
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Old August 31st, 2009, 08:13 AM   #406
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Does anyone have any shots taken within Southampton Docks - eastern or western - during the 1970s?
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Old August 31st, 2009, 01:08 PM   #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thun View Post
Why should there be a problem regarding the city centres. You can link the new line to the existing network and use the existing tracks and stations in the cities. Costs a few minutes but is much cheaper. The TGV doesn't run with 300km/h within Paris either.
True, but in France this is done only at the end stations (e.g. Paris, Marseille...). It's not such a great idea to pass via the city centre of every major town on the route. The train usually has to roll for 10-15 kms on legacy tracks with speeds limited to less than 140 km/h. Even if a train runs non-stop this will prolong the travel time by up to 10 minutes. This problem has essentially killed the high-speed concept in Germany: the trains from Hamburg to Munich, for example, have to pass via half a dozen of city centres which compared with a fully fledged TGV solution already slows them down by more than half an hour.

I fear in England the problem would be even worse. So far delays and slow trains are caused by congestion of the commuter tracks around the major cities rather than congestion out on the lines. If you force the new HS2 to use parts of these existing tracks in city centres then, surely, they will become part of the same "pagaille"?
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Old August 31st, 2009, 01:44 PM   #408
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If my understanding is correct, the current proposal is for the line to penetrate the major cities as well as having by-passing lines for 'fast' trains.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 02:11 PM   #409
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That's also my understanding. The plans for HS2 that I've seen follows the masterplan that has worked well in France (Lyon, Reims, Tours...) insofar as the trains come FROM the capital. As you say it's about giving the trains the option, but not the obligation, to service the city centre.

What some of the discussants here worry about is the apparent lack of HS connections into Manchester and Birmingham for trains running from north to south. Trains from Birmingham to Manchester would leave B slowly and enter M quickly; trains from M to B would leave M quickly and enter B slowly. Personally I don't think it's a big issue. I'm sure that the HS line will be connected to the legacy rails and even if the connection between provincial cities would be a bit slower than it might have been it's still a huge advance on what we have today.

My posting was intended as an objection to Thun who seems to think that there shouldn't be a bypass at Birmingham and Manchester. THAT I would strongly recommend against, as would most people who ever sat in a German "ICE Sprinter" which "sprinted" through a sequence of medium-sized towns at 120 km/h.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 11:41 PM   #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoFMO View Post
I read the full report from Network Rail and am very happy with the recommendations.

Basically they propose a new line all the way to Scotland with branches to B'ham, Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow and Edinburgh. The runtimes to Scotland with around 2:15 are incredible and will give rail a real boost.

In regards to the city center stations they want to built the line to the full European loading gauge, e.g. 400m long double stagged TGV's. That makes the classic stations unsuitable as their platforms are too short and also too close to the track.

My only slight criticism arises from that point. I don't think that they need to run 4 trains per hour to each B'ham and Manchester. They say that this trains will be only 10 coaches long. But by running 400m long double stagged trains they could run 20-minutes intervals as currently and would still offer enough capacity. Maybe even a 30-minutes interval would be sufficient. For an Intercity route like these I think every 30 minutes is more than ebough and would not drive too many passengers to other modes of transportation as long as I can ofer enough capacity. The current 20 minutes intervals offered by Virgin Trains is from my point more derived by the lack of other options to extend capacity than by the necessity to run such a frequency.

By gaining four pathes from B'ham and Manchester additional trains could run to Chester-Holyhead, Leicester-Nottingham or other provincial towns.
I wouldn't be sure 4 trains from each would be enough if the system is a huge success. Its aiming to wipe out the air travel sector domestically and with journey times coming down to one hour to the North West. Travelling by train to Europe is going to look very attractive. You'd have your current train user market along with 4 or 5 new ones. It would be possible to travel from Manchester to Paris in 3 hours 21 minutes. Once LGV Picardie is built which will be before HS2 has even opened, times from London to Paris will drop to 1 hour 55 minutes. If a by pass is built from HS1 to HS2. Manchester to Paris could come in at around 3 hours. Birmingham to Paris 2 hours 40 minutes. etc
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Old September 1st, 2009, 08:18 AM   #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andysimo123 View Post
Once LGV Picardie is built which will be before HS2 has even opened, times from London to Paris will drop to 1 hour 55 minutes. If a by pass is built from HS1 to HS2. Manchester to Paris could come in at around 3 hours. Birmingham to Paris 2 hours 40 minutes. etc
That's more than I know. Yeah, LGV Picardie WOULD have this effect on travelling times, but as far as I know this LGV is not high on any French agenda. The formal planning procedures have not even started (which places the line behind six other unstarted projects....) and there's not a chance of construction work beginning until after 2020.
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Old September 1st, 2009, 12:29 PM   #412
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Looks great!
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Old September 1st, 2009, 01:15 PM   #413
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I think the current proposal includes a long-term plan for a potential spur to Heathrow, so that long-haul flyers could potencially take the train to and from scotland instead of taking another flight. If they can build a link between HS2 and HS1 then, why, a Scotland - Mainline Europe direct service could be possible no? It could call at Stratford International within London.
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Old September 2nd, 2009, 12:08 AM   #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andysimo123 View Post
I wouldn't be sure 4 trains from each would be enough if the system is a huge success. Its aiming to wipe out the air travel sector domestically and with journey times coming down to one hour to the North West. Travelling by train to Europe is going to look very attractive. You'd have your current train user market along with 4 or 5 new ones. It would be possible to travel from Manchester to Paris in 3 hours 21 minutes. Once LGV Picardie is built which will be before HS2 has even opened, times from London to Paris will drop to 1 hour 55 minutes. If a by pass is built from HS1 to HS2. Manchester to Paris could come in at around 3 hours. Birmingham to Paris 2 hours 40 minutes. etc
Just to make my concerns clear. A Virgin Class 390 Pendolino currently is 220m long and seats 340 Passengers. They will be extended by 2 cars and might seat 400 seats after all.

A TGV Duplex formed by 2 sets is 400m long and can seat 1100 Passengers.

So going from 3x400=1200 seats per hour to 4x1110=4400 seats for B'ham and Manchester is quite a big step.

I am aware that the report only talks about ten car sets, but they also say that the line will be built to European standard. So it would be easily possible to increase the number of seats by large without sacrificing too many other slots.
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Old September 29th, 2009, 03:35 PM   #415
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...and hopefully soon to be served by the Metro line.

[IMG]http://i37.************/1qn1gp.jpg[/IMG]
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Old September 29th, 2009, 03:56 PM   #416
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I hope they open the platforms up a bit. Its so dark and dingy down there!
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Old September 29th, 2009, 07:16 PM   #417
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Quote:
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But if Preston station closed but the trains still ran through would there be chaos? Only for people who live in Preston..
Preston Station is more valued for its connections than its service to people in Preston. A very large number of people from both Manchester and Liverpool use Preston to get a connection to Glasgow. In addition, Preston is one of the key connection points between any city on the Transpennine route and the WCML. And anybody living in towns on the East Lancs or Fylde branches are entirely dependent on Preston to get a connection to either London or Scotland.

So if Preston did close, it would be leaving millions of people in great difficulty to get key connections... bringing chaos to the network. The Transpennine and Cross Country routes are already overcrowded as it is.
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Old October 1st, 2009, 05:01 AM   #418
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^i was just looking n i cnt find anything
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Old October 1st, 2009, 05:13 AM   #419
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I wonder who will take over from NXEC
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Old November 20th, 2009, 04:42 PM   #420
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