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Old November 22nd, 2010, 10:58 AM   #561
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(About stations along the line)

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Originally Posted by bluemeansgo View Post
Partly true, probably closer to 30-40km though. . Of course, only the Kodama trains make every stop. Nozomi makes maybe three stops the whole way.
True. It would require a timetable with several service patterns. I do think that the market is there though (as we're not talking rural France here...).
With a couple of clever connections with the existing network, and a few well sited intermediate stations travel times to Birmingham and London could be improved for residents along the line as well, not only those at the extremities.
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Old November 22nd, 2010, 02:54 PM   #562
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The the fact that there are no stations planned for the local population south of Birmingham is not a basis for an argument against HS2. If you look at a map you will see that the people in the surrounding area of the proposed HS2 route are served by as many as 3 lines going into London. That particular corridor between the M1 and M40 has stations in Hemel Hempstead, Aylsbury, Leighton Buzzard, Tring, Armesham, High Wycombe to name but a few. The Chilterns line is being upgraded which will add extra capacity for people travelling in that area. HS2 is about serving northern communities outside of the London commuter belt, this is essential for the continued economic growth of the north as a whole as it will bring the north closer to London and allow for more effective trading between our major cities. If the people of the south are so concerned about the amount of subsidy the north gets from London why not give the north a chance to play a part in the success of the south rather than feeding off of it.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 08:51 AM   #563
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Tories could derail high speed trains

Birmingham desperately “needs third rail link to London”
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 11:21 AM   #564
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Selfish MPs protecting their seats rather than looking at the bigger picture. It's so frustrating.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 11:30 AM   #565
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MPs protecting their seats rather than looking at the national interest
http://yestohs2.blogspot.com/2010/11...ther-than.html
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 02:56 PM   #566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YesToHS2 View Post
The the fact that there are no stations planned for the local population south of Birmingham is not a basis for an argument against HS2.
That is not what I am saying. I'm not arguing against the line, although I'm note really an interested party, other than that I like to travel by train, even to the UK. (I don't fly within Europe on principle)
I was only stating that local stations along the line are something that might reduce local opposition.
In a democracy you need to convince people, just telling them they're wrong doesn't really achieve a lot.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 03:25 PM   #567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
That is not what I am saying. I'm not arguing against the line, although I'm note really an interested party, other than that I like to travel by train, even to the UK. (I don't fly within Europe on principle)
I was only stating that local stations along the line are something that might reduce local opposition.
In a democracy you need to convince people, just telling them they're wrong doesn't really achieve a lot.
I think the opposition is a bit exaggerated. Building local stations will either mean a white elephant with 5 trains a day or buggered up timetables. What's actually going to happen is the commuter service will be greatly improved, with good connections to HSR at key nodes, so HSR indirectly benefits the intermediate residents too. I'm sure you understand all that and I think the residents are a bit more enlightened than needing a white elephant to shut them up.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 04:17 PM   #568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
I think the opposition is a bit exaggerated. Building local stations will either mean a white elephant with 5 trains a day or buggered up timetables.
A station doesn't make sense unless you have at least a train per hour, I agree. It doesn't have to "bugger up" the timetable though. Look at the Shinkansen.

Looking at the map in detail I see two interesting opportunities:
- Making a connection with the Coventry - Leamington Spa line. Would allow fast trains from Coventry to London on the new line.
- Reopening Bicester - Milton Keynes, with a interchange station where it crosses with the new line. Not so much for people travelling to London, but for people traveling to the North.

Quote:
What's actually going to happen is the commuter service will be greatly improved, with good connections to HSR at key nodes, so HSR indirectly benefits the intermediate residents too. I'm sure you understand all that and I think the residents are a bit more enlightened than needing a white elephant to shut them up.
Well some of the complaints above are that the residents apparently aren't that enlightened....
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Old November 24th, 2010, 01:55 AM   #569
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If the residents of Aylesbury and the area could get a fast train into London, I wonder what that would do to the economics of the Chiltern Line.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 02:26 AM   #570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33Hz View Post
Although we've touched on this before, we don't have a dedicated thread for HS2 in the UK, so I'll start it off.

HS2 is a proposed HSR line through England - eventually reaching Scotland - which it is intended will be able to carry 400 km/h trains of continental European specification and British gauge trains that can continue onwards on the existing network. It is planned that work would start in 2017, with the link to Birmingham open in 2025 and Leeds in 2040. (Yes, roughly 15 years to open the length of line that on average China is opening every month...)

This shows the routes of HS1 (light blue) and HS2 (dark blue).


...
Germany would be a much more realistic reference in this case.

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Originally Posted by Palatinus View Post

...

Why don't they build a direct connection between Berlin and Munich?

...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhalt_Railway

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erfurt%...-speed_railway

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurembe...-speed_railway

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurembe...-speed_railway

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin%...o_railway_axis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TE...in-Palermo.gif

It will take Germany around 25 years to have a dedicated Berlin - Munich HSR line, for planning to completion. It would be nice to have HSR lines built in only a few years, but then such wish is just not possible for most countries.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 08:43 AM   #571
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Wycombe MP Steve Baker: HS2 case 'not proven'

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Mr Baker said he will oppose the plans completely, rather than arguing only for an alternative route.

HS2 will be one of the key issues examined by the Transport Select Committee, to which Mr Baker was recently elected.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 11:00 AM   #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
A station doesn't make sense unless you have at least a train per hour, I agree. It doesn't have to "bugger up" the timetable though. Look at the Shinkansen.

Looking at the map in detail I see two interesting opportunities:
- Making a connection with the Coventry - Leamington Spa line. Would allow fast trains from Coventry to London on the new line.
I would say no to this. Rather crazily HS2 is expected to take all high speed traffic the West Midlands, East Midlands, North West, North East and Scotland. There won't be any space left for short distance trains. With higher capacity on the WCML, and an upgraded Chiltern line, there is no need to have really fast trains into London. (200km/h WCML and 160km/h Chiltern post-Evergreen 3 is really rather good).

Quote:
- Reopening Bicester - Milton Keynes, with a interchange station where it crosses with the new line. Not so much for people travelling to London, but for people traveling to the North.
I think this line is being reopened at some point. http://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/
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Old November 24th, 2010, 11:22 AM   #573
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it seems a good planned project for UK (a country where the main goal is to speed up connection between every british town and London, not to speed up connections among cities).

Knowing the density of population in the area between London and Birmingham do you believe this project is viable? have there been already resistence among the population about the project?
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Old November 24th, 2010, 12:02 PM   #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
I would say no to this. Rather crazily HS2 is expected to take all high speed traffic the West Midlands, East Midlands, North West, North East and Scotland. There won't be any space left for short distance trains.
Will there really be on the order of 20+ tph to Birmingham and points north?
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Old November 24th, 2010, 12:15 PM   #575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
Will there really be on the order of 20+ tph to Birmingham and points north?
Well HS2 will provide a further 3tph to Birmingham but I don't know fully how many tph it has at the moment.

I think it's wrong for people especially the critics to focus on Birmingham as the end of the line. In fact less and a quarter of HS2 trains will call at Birmingham. From day one there will be 14tph, 3 of those to Birmingham the rest to cities in the north. Stations served by HS2 will Crewe, Liverpool, Manchester, Warrington, Preston, Glasgow, Stafford. Most of the usual WCML stops will be served beyond Birmingham with exception of some semi direct train services.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 12:36 PM   #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
Will there really be on the order of 20+ tph to Birmingham and points north?
Yeah, as YestoHS2 says, the original plan presented last year will have 14tph. This was before the Y-shape network had been decided, so now on top of these 14tph will be the east midlands and north east services. Expect another 2-3tph to Sheffield Leeds and/or Bradford, and 2-3tph York (perhaps Hull) Newcastle and Edinburgh.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 01:20 PM   #577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
Yeah, as YestoHS2 says, the original plan presented last year will have 14tph. This was before the Y-shape network had been decided, so now on top of these 14tph will be the east midlands and north east services. Expect another 2-3tph to Sheffield Leeds and/or Bradford, and 2-3tph York (perhaps Hull) Newcastle and Edinburgh.
It's good that they plan to use it intensively. In Belgium they build a HSL that sees less than one tph...
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Old November 24th, 2010, 02:49 PM   #578
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Considering the cost it is a necessity. HS1 has dissappointed with its usage, which is partly why it took so long to get to planning HS2. Because of HS1s under-achievement (so far) they want to cram as much as they can down HS2 to ensure it is generating revenue.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 05:02 PM   #579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
Considering the cost it is a necessity. HS1 has dissappointed with its usage, which is partly why it took so long to get to planning HS2. Because of HS1s under-achievement (so far) they want to cram as much as they can down HS2 to ensure it is generating revenue.
Domestic HS1 services are a bit of a joke! I would imagine they will disappear when HS2 services from Birmingham and Manchester etc start to go to Paris via HS1.

Critics will jump on any piece of information that can be twisted to produce a negative on HS2. Fortunateley, the positives outweigh the negatives to such an extent that they are unlikely to suceed.

HS2 is such a massive opportunity for the nation and it will go ahead. The only questions that remain are where, when and how.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 06:13 PM   #580
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It's interesting that critics use the fact that rail has 80% of the Manchester to London market. I don't have the exact figures on that market perhaps some one can help me on that. But surely the 20% that don't use rail adds up to a large amount. So surely HS2 as the potential to take 90% to 100% of that marker share alone.

I think the maximum efficient tph will be 18tph even with the Y shape configuration simply because of the constraints there will be on the Birmingham London section. The added benefit of the European loading gage proposed though is that it allows for 400m long trains and double decked train which can carry up to 1200 people. So the scope for HS2 goes far beyond how many trains per hour they can fit on the line.
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