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Old July 20th, 2011, 04:49 PM   #661
WatcherZero
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Last HSR proposal I saw Ted had two seperate HS lines one connecting Manchester to Glasgow and one Leeds to Edinburgh.

Scottish government favours the West coast for connecting Scotland to London but it does also recognise an East Coast role in connecting Scotland to North East england.
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Old July 20th, 2011, 07:06 PM   #662
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i think a reverse s would be best
glasgow-edinburgh-newcastle-york-leeds-manchester-liverpool
+
leeds-sheffield----london
manchester-birmingham----london
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Old July 21st, 2011, 02:00 PM   #663
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That's more like a reverse-C on top of a Y.
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Old July 21st, 2011, 08:26 PM   #664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
i think a reverse s would be best
glasgow-edinburgh-newcastle-york-leeds-manchester-liverpool
+
leeds-sheffield----london
manchester-birmingham----london
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That's more like a reverse-C on top of a Y.
I thought it was an inverted ampersand.
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Old July 22nd, 2011, 12:56 PM   #665
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Will the two branches of the Y both stretch all the way to Scotland?

My bet is that the one from Manchester will - the other will stop outside Newcastle
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Old July 22nd, 2011, 03:16 PM   #666
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Will the two branches of the Y both stretch all the way to Scotland?

My bet is that the one from Manchester will - the other will stop outside Newcastle
It's not even certain that HS2 will be built. No one knows the final form HS2 will take if built.
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Old July 23rd, 2011, 05:51 AM   #667
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High Speed Rail plans backed by civil engineering body

The delivery of a High Speed Rail (HSR) network supports a more structured transport strategy for the nation, the Institution of Civil Engineers has claimed.

The civil engineering body believe the proposed plans for High Speed 2 will ‘free up capacity on the existing congested rail network and help regenerate and boost the economies of our city-regions, therefore benefitting the UK as a whole’.

Chair of ICE’s HSR working group, Steven Hayter, said: “The opportunity should be taken to invest in growth by providing a new railway that is fit for the 21st century – significantly increasing capacity, strengthening connectivity between Britain’s city-regions and linking up with the Trans-European rail network.The time to invest is now, and we endorse the Government’s strategy. In addition to better connectivity between regions, the benefit of improved connectivity to the capital should also not be understated,” he added.

“Faster, more reliable connections to London could propel a city-region’s economic competitiveness and act as a catalyst for regeneration as city developers, planners and businesses alike take advantage of the opportunities – especially in the Midlands, the North and Scotland. But we believe the benefits are not limited to those cities served by HS2.

“Many will benefit from released capacity and significantly improved services on the existing lines, such as communities that are currently not well served by the West Coast Main Line. Those not directly served by HS2 will also benefit from reduced journey times providing their nearest HS2 station is easily accessible by road or public transport.

“The key to growth is in the regions’ hands – they are best placed to devise how to use this infrastructural asset to their advantage and ensure economic development is evenly spread.”

...
http://www.rail.co/2011/07/22/high-s...ineering-body/
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Old July 26th, 2011, 08:18 AM   #668
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Moving Platforms

It may appear like a lift straight from an action sequence of a movie, but the designer puts it as the future of train traveling when the platform will move along with the train. Conceived by the industrial designer Paul Priestman of Priestmangoode, the high-speed trains will not stop at the platforms, as it is time-consuming, rather transfer the passengers to the local service trains or trams, while still moving in high speed. The concept of moving platform is by the same designer who designed Virgin Pendolino and Mercury high speed concept train.

How this will take place is even more interesting. The local trains or trams will dock alongside the long distance train and while still in motion the trains will allow the passengers to move from one train to another. The trains will connect to each other physically via docking system. Once the transfers are done both the trains will take their own separate ways. The local train or tram will act as a platform to take passengers disembarked from the long distance train to the local destination and letting the other train move with the same speed to its destination.

This will definitely be helpful in managing the time and energy consumption more effectively in long distance traveling. The high speed international or long distance trains waste lots of time and energy in the transit between two stations. Stopping at a station slows down the high speed train and regaining the speed results in both extra time and energy consumption. Therefore, the moving platform will be a very helpful concept for the long distance high-speed trains. It works on the same theory as the computers networks. Here, the network will connect two trains.

As the designer calls it “The train travel of 21st century,” the concept seems to be appealing as most of the areas already have two train lines, one for the long distance trains connecting one state/region (or even nation) to another and a parallel line for local trains or trams. So, the idea of connecting both the lines does not seem to be impossible. One thing is for sure, if the concept of moving platform realizes, it is definitely going to change the face of the train travel forever. It’s absolutely an idea to look forward as it will definitely change our live and save our travel time as well.

Source: DesignBuzz.com







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Old July 26th, 2011, 08:28 AM   #669
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Britain’s leading transport designer unveils the future for 21st Century train travel

Britain’s leading transport designer has unveiled his idea for the future of train travel. Moving Platforms is a completely inter-connected rail infrastructure where local trams connect to a network of non-stop high speed trains enabling passengers to travel from their local stop to a local address at their destination (even in another country) without getting off a train.

Paul Priestman of Priestmangoode is the designer of the Virgin Pendolino train and last year’s hugely successful Mercury high speed concept train. Moving Platforms is a totally joined-up network that allows passengers to transfer directly from one moving tram or high speed train to another. This new integrated infrastructure mimics the way the internet works, creating a system similar to the one that allows your home PC to connect to a computer on the other side of the world via a series of connected networks.

Moving Platforms involves a network of high speed trains that run non-stop between two ends of a continent, New York to San Francisco for instance. The high speed trains run on a line that passes outside towns and cities with a network of local feeder trams that carry passengers from local stops out to meet them. As they near each other, the high speed train slows down slightly and the tram speeds up alongside it, at which point the trains physically connect via a docking system allowing passengers to transfer directly across from the tram to the high speed train and vice versa. Once transfers are complete, the trains separate, with the high speed train speeding up again along its route, and the tram slowing down and going back into the town or city centre with the newly disembarked passengers. The tram, in effect, acts as a moving station. The same system could also be used by passengers transferring from one high speed train to another.

This idea is not as crazy as it sounds. There are plenty of examples in every day life where we step onto a moving vehicle: escalators, moving walkways, paternoster lifts, ski lifts and Ferris wheels like the London Eye.

We are trying to build a new 21st Century train service on a station-based infrastructure that was designed in the 19th century for steam trains. We should be re-thinking infrastructure and building an inter-connected local-to-global rail network.

Current plans for high speed rail will require a new network of major stations, taking up huge amounts of space and with a cost and environmental impact that is potentially vast. These stations function for the most part as large car parks that are packed during working hours and empty the rest of the time, and are only in use by passengers for short periods of the day.

The big problem with high speed trains is that they are not very fast. Slowing down and speeding up as they move between stations means they are only able to travel at their full speed for limited periods of time (wasting vast amounts of energy in the process). On long journeys, the non stop high speed train could save a vast proportion of any journey time.

We lose huge amounts of time in transit waiting at stations as we change trains. Moving Platforms would enable passengers to travel from their local stop to an address of their choice in another town or country without getting off a train.

Many rail passengers use cars to get to their main-line embarkation station, so being able to link up to the high speed train directly from a local tram or train service means we could reduce car usage in towns and cities.

Track infrastructure is already in place in many areas. On each train line, there are two tracks, one high speed and one local, next to one another. This means that potentially, Moving Platforms would not take up any more land.

Existing local stations would serve the feeder trams, enabling passengers from rural areas to access the high speed line easily.

Moving Platforms could also be used for local deliveries and freight. This will help get trucks off the road and ease congestion on motorways and in towns and cities.
A journey planner App would tell you what local tram or train to get on in Boston to go to a local address in San Francisco for instance, making travel simpler and easier.

“I can’t believe that across the world we are spending billions on high speed rail making it run on a network that was invented in the 19th Century. I’m under no illusion that Moving Platforms is a big idea, but if we really want high speed rail to be successful and change the way we travel, getting people off the roads and reducing the number of short haul flights, it is imperative that the infrastructure we use works with, not against, this new technology to enable a seamless passenger journey from start to destination. The days of the super-hub train station are over, connectivity is the way forward,” says Paul Priestman.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 09:49 PM   #670
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While I like the idea of transferring between high-speed and local trains at speed in principle, I think the idea has some difficulties in practice:

- Train length. High speed trains are much longer than local trains. That may not seem like a huge problem until one considers that luggage may be involved.

- Diversity of local services. Imagine, for example, a high speed train going between Manchester and Paris via London (or bypassing London). Currently, one would have dozens of options for connecting to different local services in London. How many different local trains could dock with a high-speed train between Manchester and Kent? Keep in mind that docking near Manchester would be pointless. It would seem that only the most popular local services could dock and passengers going elsewhere would have to change trains one more time. If the number of dockings exceeds the current number of stops, there might not be any savings in time or energy.

- Weight. These docking doors would certainly add weight and complexity.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 10:35 PM   #671
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i dont think it would save a lot of electricity, just consider regenerative braking and the energy needed for the "platform trains"

this idea reminds me of the zeppelin aircraft hook-on trapeze which was intended to fly in customs officials (!) prior to landing...

crazy ideas
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Old July 27th, 2011, 07:56 AM   #672
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Old July 27th, 2011, 02:05 PM   #673
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honest to god, i dont understand the opposition, youve got £1400 bn / year economy and they are bellyaching over something that would cost ~£1 bn / year assuming a 40 year amortization, thats like 0.07% of gdp
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Old July 28th, 2011, 07:34 PM   #674
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honest to god, i dont understand the opposition, youve got £1400 bn / year economy and they are bellyaching over something that would cost ~£1 bn / year assuming a 40 year amortization, thats like 0.07% of gdp
It's all about people who want their home properties away from any possible disturbance. I am sure if this goes to a poll it will be overwhelmingly approved. Any other city would love a faster connection to London, and maybe the rest of Europe's high speed network.
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Old July 29th, 2011, 03:38 AM   #675
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Any other city would love a faster connection to London, and maybe the rest of Europe's high speed network.
The rest of Europe's HS network... and this is what i don't understand about the HS2 proposal: It's not connected to Europe's High Speed network.
It would make the line so much more useful if people from for example Birmingham could go straight to Brussels or Paris. So why terminate the line in London, without any connection to HS1?
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Old July 29th, 2011, 09:58 AM   #676
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There is to be a connection, but demand is expected to be so low it is a single track chord.
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Old July 29th, 2011, 01:29 PM   #677
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Demand for about 2 trains per day. Probably an over-reaction to the over-enthusiastic figures for the Chunnel that never came into light, but I reckon that, given the small demand even for London from the continent (and vice versa) that Birmingham, etc would be fine mostly using the travelator.

There's also the problem of diverting trains away from London - the demand for London is so high that there's no spare capacity for other trains. Provided that they stop at Old Oak and Stratford, they should be fine.

Notice the lack of south of Paris/east of Brussels trains from London too - a mere handful.
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Old July 29th, 2011, 04:19 PM   #678
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In the video they make a claim that people will start to telecommunicate more and therefore travel less. The idea might seam interresting at first sight, but the video producers forgot to mention that there is no real world evidence what-so-ever that this is remotely true. Mobility is increasing without any signs of decreasing.
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Old July 30th, 2011, 06:03 AM   #679
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Quote:
HS2 ‘would benefit towns’ between London and Birmingham

The construction of a new high speed line could benefit towns between London and Birmingham, as well as transforming rail travel to and between cities further north, according to the Association of Train Operating Companies (ATOC).

In its response to the Government’s consultation on High Speed 2, ATOC says that HS2 is a ‘better way of dealing with growing passenger numbers’ than further upgrades to the West Coast Main Line.

Upgrading the existing line would offer only ‘marginal improvements’ to intercity services, do ‘little to free up capacity for local services’ between London and the West Midlands or for freight, and risks bringing major disruption to millions of passengers.

Michael Roberts, Chief Executive of ATOC said: “Rail travel is more popular now than it has been for decades with parts of the network facing a capacity crunch. Investing in a new high speed line and other parts of the rail network is key to ensuring the nation has a modern, green transport system fit for the 21st century.

“HS2 not only provides the extra capacity needed to serve growing demand for rail, uniquely it offers the prospect of dramatically shorter journey times between the engines of our economy. This promises to unlock the potential of cities in the Midlands and the North, and to attract even more people out of cars and planes and onto trains.”
http://www.rail.co/2011/07/29/hs2-wo...nd-birmingham/
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Old July 31st, 2011, 06:17 PM   #680
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There is to be a connection, but demand is expected to be so low it is a single track chord.
I think this is somewhat self-fulfilling.

Take a look at the air traffic stats from the CAA. If you look at all the route combinations that an HS2/Heathrow through to HS1 interconnection allows that are under 4 hours travel time, the market size is even bigger than the UK domestic market for HS2. It's 1 million pax per month.

I'm hoping that if DB manage to break the logjam that is caused by Channel Tunnel safety regulations and immigration requirements, a lot more of this market will be there for rail to take.
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