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Old September 15th, 2011, 02:04 PM   #701
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It would be good if these services could be operated... shame if all HS2 stations had to have an international section....


On a side note, would it be possible to have a Eurotunnel style freight service on HS2? By that i mean lorries drive onto a "le Shuttle" train somewhere up North, that train then goes down HS2 (at the normal line operating speed so as to not limit the number of paths).

That might aid road congestion and pollution somewhat. Is it remotely feasable?
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Old September 15th, 2011, 04:17 PM   #702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobbo View Post
On a side note, would it be possible to have a Eurotunnel style freight service on HS2? By that i mean lorries drive onto a "le Shuttle" train somewhere up North, that train then goes down HS2 (at the normal line operating speed so as to not limit the number of paths).
No.

That would mean strengthening the track to accommodate almost double the axle load, which would make costs of construction skyrocket.
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Old September 15th, 2011, 04:30 PM   #703
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No.

That would mean strengthening the track to accommodate almost double the axle load, which would make costs of construction skyrocket.
Fair enough!

Is this something that can only be done during the initial construction process, or can it be done at a later date (without massive disruption/cost)?

I guess Bridges could be problematic, but the rest would not be too bad.
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Old September 15th, 2011, 06:21 PM   #704
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But it also shows that trains that do HS1 - HS2 through running to/from the continent must be open to domestic travel too.
No it doesn't. It shows that the appropriate number of services would be quite small, thats all.
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Old September 16th, 2011, 09:32 AM   #705
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I don't think so. Eurostar operates on a strict reserved seat policy, a requirement for using the Eurotunnel (to have a list of all people on board a train, and limited occupancy of the train in case a fast evacuation is needed). Moreover, it is good to have a differentiated service, one that implies you will ALWAYS have a previously determined seat.

Pricing strategies are also completely different for international travel.

Thalys, for instance, is a very successful joint venture and it doesn't operate regular domestic services integrated in the network whatsoever.
Mandatory reservation and yield management does not preclude cabotage.

Thalys services can be used for domestic travel in Belgium. You can board a Thalys in Liege and get of in Brussel for example, if you pay the surcharge. As an operator you want to fill your seats. If you don't sufficiently fill your seats you operate at a loss.
That is why it is advantageous to the operator of a Birmingham - London - Paris service to also accept passengers who want to travel Birmingham - London. The fact that this was ruled out in advance for the NOL Eurostars basically made them unviable.
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Old September 16th, 2011, 02:14 PM   #706
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That is why it is advantageous to the operator of a Birmingham - London - Paris service to also accept passengers who want to travel Birmingham - London. The fact that this was ruled out in advance for the NOL Eurostars basically made them unviable.
Agree - but the safety of the Channel Tunnel is first priority.

Perhaps two trainsets joined up can go from Manchester - Birmingham - London, with the front set going on to Paris (perhaps joining up with a similar set that has done Leeds - Sheffield - East Mids - London - Paris?)
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Old September 16th, 2011, 04:13 PM   #707
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Agree - but the safety of the Channel Tunnel is first priority.

Perhaps two trainsets joined up can go from Manchester - Birmingham - London, with the front set going on to Paris (perhaps joining up with a similar set that has done Leeds - Sheffield - East Mids - London - Paris?)
You'll have a much more flexible time schedule and capacity if you simply have passengers change trains at London not to mention the hassle of not needing to open an immigration at all the stations.
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Old September 22nd, 2011, 10:23 PM   #708
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Railroad to nowhere

Plans for a new high-speed rail link rest on mistaken assumptions about Britain’s economic geography
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Old September 23rd, 2011, 04:41 AM   #709
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The article above makes up even more dubious assumptions , none of which are adequately backed up. A simple time-cost analysis is expected at the very least for an article coming from The Economist
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Old September 23rd, 2011, 10:06 PM   #710
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My search, revealing much coverage of railways by the mag, was surprising.
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Old September 25th, 2011, 11:54 PM   #711
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I thought they weren't connecting HS2 and HS1?
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Old September 26th, 2011, 12:06 AM   #712
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I thought they weren't connecting HS2 and HS1?
Pretty sure there has always been a single track connection in the plans.
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Old September 26th, 2011, 09:50 AM   #713
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I thought they weren't connecting HS2 and HS1?
HS2 will be connected to the existing network, therefore it will be connected to HS1...
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Old September 26th, 2011, 02:30 PM   #714
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I thought they weren't connecting HS2 and HS1?
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.g...hs1connection/
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Old September 26th, 2011, 11:44 PM   #715
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HS2 will be connected to the existing network, therefore it will be connected to HS1...
The question is rather whether there will be a GC-gauge through route. This could be of massive importance to the Bombardier plant in Derby, provided that it still exists when HS2 arrives in the East Midlands.
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Old September 27th, 2011, 12:43 PM   #716
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From Railway Herald Issue 285

http://www.railwayherald.com/mailshot/2011-09-26/

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Deutsche Bahn to start commercial services from London in 2013

Following the announcement in October last year that Deutsche Bahn was looking to commence operations from London, it has been confirmed that European services will start in
late 2013.

It is expected that three trains a day will operate from London St Pancras International through the Channel Tunnel to Brussels, from where they will split, with one half heading for Amsterdam, a destination that has been a long held ambition for Eurostar, while the other half will proceed to Frankfurt, via Cologne. It is understood that when services commence in December 2013, they will use the latest Siemens-built ICE3 fleet, known as Class 407 EMUs, providing access to Amsterdam in less than four hours, and Frankfurt in around five hours. Eurostar is following DB with the purchase of 10 high-speed sets from Siemens that will become, what Eurostar call e320 sets, signifying their top speed. The trains will carry 900 passengers, as apposed to the 750 capacity of the current Class 373 Alstom built TGV variant. When Eurostar announced the new order in October 2010, the company stated that the new trains would allow additional destinations to be served, including Amsterdam and Geneva.
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Old October 8th, 2011, 05:14 PM   #717
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High-speed rail could link Gatwick and Heathrow airports in 15 minutes

A high-speed rail link could take passengers between Gatwick and Heathrow within 15 minutes, according to a new proposal drawn up by civil servants. The £5bn plan – creating a hub known as Heathwick – would mean there is no need to build another airport to serve London or expand the current facilities at Heathrow.

According to sources, officials at the Department for Transport have already put the idea to the airports and companies involved – but it remains only one option to be considered under the current aviation review. The plans are at an early stage and could easily run into opposition from Heathrow, which is owned by BAA and keen to expand on its own. Gatwick is owned by Global Infrastructure Partners.

There could also be protest from people who live near the area, including the Surrey constituents of Philip Hammond, the transport minister. To minimise disruption, the trains, travelling at 180mph, would largely follow the route of the M25 motorway and could be underground for part of the way.

Under the current proposals, passengers would not need to go through separate immigration procedures or check-in twice, because Gatwick and Heathrow would be considered part of the same aviation “hub”.

Ministers are under pressure from business groups to find a solution to lack of airport capacity in the South East, after the Coalition ruled out any more runways at Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted. The main concern is that poor airport infrastructure is making Britain less competitive.

The British Chamber of Commerce first put forward plans for a "Heathwick" hub two years ago, but the idea has only gained ground during the current review of the UK’s aviation capacity. It would take some time to build the 35-mile line, but less than creating another new airport in the Thames Estuary, which is the favoured solution of London Mayor Boris Johnson.

The Department for Transport is planning to publish its aviation policy in the spring.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...5-minutes.html

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Heathwick airport hub on agenda

A radical plan for a new “Heath-Wick” airport hub featuring a £5bn high-speed rail link between Heathrow and Gatwick is being considered seriously by ministers, the Financial Times has learnt.

The idea was put forward as an alternative to the politically unpalatable expansion of Heathrow and is being closely examined by ministers, who are under pressure to increase airport capacity in the south-east of England.

The British Chambers of Commerce suggested two years ago that high-speed rail could be used to link Heathrow and Gatwick, creating a “collective hub”. Councillor Victoria Borwick, a member of the Greater London Authority’s transport committee and former Conservative party treasurer, will on Saturday call for a more detailed consultation into the idea.

She believes her proposal will expand capacity around London without jeopardising the coalition’s promise not to build new runways at Heathrow, Gatwick or Stansted. Stansted, in Essex, is relatively unpopular with airways and is only running at 58 per cent capacity.

Building a 15-minute link between Heathrow and Gatwick could increase the price of landing slots at the latter, and eventually force low-cost airlines such as Ryanair and EasyJet to move to Stansted. This could free up more slots at the new “Heath-Wick” hub for an expansion of regional capacity, an idea which has caught the eye of cabinet ministers.

The Department for Transport said a draft aviation policy would be published for consultation in the spring. “We are seeking views on the key issues which need to be addressed, including the importance of a UK hub airport and whether it might be possible to create a ‘virtual hub’ by improving connectivity between existing airports,” it said. “This proposal will form a useful contribution to the debate.”

The 35-mile high-speed rail route would see trains travelling at up to 180mph parallel to the M25, before disappearing into tunnels en route to Gatwick. Passengers would not need to pass through immigration or check-in twice.

The route would take several years to legislate and another five to build. As such it would be faster to build than alternatives including the £40bn “Boris Airport” proposed by London’s mayor, Boris Johnson, for the Thames estuary.

“We have all heard of ideas floating around such as Boris Airport, Cliffe Airport or RAF Manston but most are 25 years off,” said Cllr Borwick. “We need to look at what we can do in a reasonable time frame and to a reasonable budget.”

Mr Johnson this week rowed back from his once-cherished plan, suggesting he was now “not wedded to any particular solution”. “It may be that there are alternative ideas that people provide,” he said. “High-speed links between this or that airport ... creating a dual hub or whatever.”

Airlines including British Airways are likely to reject the plan and call again for a third runway at Heathrow. But the government believes a U-turn over Heathrow is politically impossible.

David Begg, chair of the Business Infrastructure Commission and a non-executive director at BAA, said Heathrow’s third runway was still the best “shovel-ready” option: “You could do it quickly but the problem is that politically that option is just toxic and off-limits just now. That is why it makes sense to look at a number of options such as this one.”
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/f4949...#axzz1aCQAYlcs
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Old October 11th, 2011, 06:30 PM   #718
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Old October 12th, 2011, 01:37 AM   #719
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I don't know if I missed anything but what is the point of building such a link? Gatwick is already the world's (?) busiest single-runway airport while Heathrow would remain with its over-used two runways. How exactly does that make sense?

The most efficient and rational solution is a new (or even two of them) runway at Heathrow or Gatwick (or even Stansted) and relevant transport improvemens from these airports to London. It's not really rocket science because you're not getting better service without havinging a physical runway where planes can land and take/off. Talking about some new high-speed rail link WITHOUT considering new runways is just nonsense.
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Old October 12th, 2011, 01:56 AM   #720
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New runways at either Heathrow or Gatwick will make the opposition to HS2 look puny. Stansted is the only London airport with room to grow.

Looking at a map, there's room for a new-build hub airport near North and South Ockendon - it requires the taking over of farmland, and would cost a lot to build, but the potential for transport links isn't bad (especially as there's still gaps for the road to Maplin, which can be modified) and it's not that pretty an area, nor involves demolishing 300 homes.

I think that the Heathwick plan is to have Heathrow and Gatwick act as one hub, in order to compete with other major hub airports - as far as I can see Gatwick will effectively turn into the short haul terminal of Heathrow (though will probably still have all those charter flights).
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